Unusual, but hopefully successful, method of quitting opiates

[darawk]

SWIM is currently addicted to Oxycontin. At the moment, he consumes about 5 OC80's a day. Considering that these generally cost him quite a bit per pill, this is an extremely expensive habit. Not to mention the damage it is doing to SWIM's nose. SWIM has been addicted for about two months now, and this addiction is really starting to eat into his finances. Even though he has a good job and make good money, he's not even breaking even with his paychecks. That means he's consuming over $1,700 worth of Oxycontin every two weeks. He really, really needs to quit.

However, his primary dilemma is that he simply can't be laid up for two weeks with hardcore withdrawals. He has work to do, and if he quits, he'll be incapacitated for quite a while. So, "just stopping" isn't really an option for him. SWIM has tried simply "tapering down", and sometimes he can get down to 1-2 pills a day for a little while, but it just never lasts. Somehow he ends up back at 5 pills a day, and never manages to get totally clean.

He is planning to purchase Subuxone to help him out, but he's not sure he's going to be able to make himself use it consistently, because he is pretty strongly psychologically addicted to snorting the Oxycontin. He knows that if he simply swallow the pills, he could avoid withdrawal and manage to taper down much more easily, because there is very little psychological addiction factor when you swallow them - at least, far less than snorting them. However, for some reason he has been unable to make myself do that:

The risk and severity of addiction to drugs generally - including cocaine are significantly affected by the wya they are administered into the body. The method of administration determines the onset, intensity, and duration of the effects from drug use. Generally the faster a drug reaches the bloodstream, the faster it is distributed throughout the body, and the faster the user feels the desired effects. The intensity of a drug's effects generally is greater for methods of administration that deliver it most rapidly to the brain. However, the methods of administration that bring the most intense effects - smoking and injection - also have the shortest duration, thereby necessitation repeated doses to sustain its effects and increasing the likelihood the user will develop an addiction. Smoking (inhalation) and injection typically produce quicker onset, shortest duration, and more intense effects from drug use than snorting and therefore increase the risk of addiction

-- Source


Other times he has attempted to quit using a homebrew cocktail of anti-withdrawal medicines, which was:

- Dextromethorphan :         Explanation
- L-Tyrosine :               Explanation
- Valium/Xanax :            To help with anxiety and getting myself to sleep
- Dramamine :                Nausea
- Various NSAIDs :          To help with phantom pains
- Frequent baths/showers:  Same as the last one
- L-Theanine :                Explanation
- Vicodin :                     Only for the first couple of days, and only if absolutely necessary - Hydrocodone in vicodin is a weaker opiate than oxycodone in Oxycontin, and would server to eliminate my withdrawal symptoms very effectively

This formula is extremely effective at controlling withdrawal symptoms, and I highly recommend it to anyone else in SWIM's situation. That being said, it does not control the other component of addiction: Pyschological desire. While some of you might say "it's just about self control" - those of you who say that have never had an addiction. Though it is just about self control ultimately, it is extremely difficult.

But, he has found a solution. Some of you might think SWIM is crazy, but he is quite confident that it is the key to breaking this aspect of the addiction. And that key is:

- Cocain

The extreme euphoria associated with cocaine, along with the energy it gives SWIM, completely suppresses my psychological desire for Oxycontin. It is also less expensive. While SWIM is somewhat worried that he will get addicted to coke, he thinks coke is a much easier addiction to break than Opioid addiction for him, for the following reasons:

- SWIM doesn't like being coked out nearly as much as he likes Opioids.
- There are very few physical withdrawal symptoms when stopping cocaine use, and they are far milder than opioid withdrawals.
- The small physical withdrawal symptoms that come with cocaine addiction are relatively easy to control with other substances
- Energy: One of the biggest things SWIM notices when he hasn't had any oxy in a while is that he gets extremely tired all the time. Obviously, cocaine solves this problem.
- Mood: When he hasn't had any OC in a while he gets irritable and physically uncomfortable. When he's on blow, he couldn't be irritable if he tried.
- Control: Interestingly enough, though the opposite is true for most people, SWIM can actually control my cocaine use pretty well. Doing only a few lines an hour isn't very difficult for SWIM.

Although a cocaine addiction would be far worse for my body than an Oxycontin addiction, I think this is going to be the easiest and most certain way of quitting oxy, and I think the possibility of getting addicted to coke is fairly remote. I'm just not really enough of a stimulant person to want to be coked out all the time.

I don't know if this strategy will work for everyone, but i'm pretty confident it will work for SWIM. I will keep this thread updated with his progress.

Note: He does not intend to quit oxy cold turkey. He is still going to be doing a little bit of it at first, but he will be doing very significantly less. At the moment, he is doing about 5 pills a day. I think tomorrow, with SWIM's coke, he will do no more than 2 OC80's, and probably taper down by a half or a quarter pill each day from there. He also intends to start swallowing his OC's instead of snorting them - except in the early morning when he need opioids in his system immediately because he wakes up shaking.

If this succeeds, hopefully it will become a roadmap for others to follow, though anyone considering it must spend a significant amount of time honestly analyzing whether or not this is right for them. SWIM thinks it will be effective in his case because he does not enjoy coke all that much and so he doesn't think it's the kind of thing he would become addicted to, but for others, that is not the case. Even if this works for SWIM, it may not for you, but if it does work for SWIM, it will be an addition to the list of things to consider.

[TinkB]

I mean no disrespect to you when I say that I find your method of thinking alarming.
If I'm understanding you correctly you are saying that you think that the act of not snorting is going to be your biggest challenge?

So what you are saying is,the opiate is not the issue, but rather it is the obsession with the snorting of the opiates? When the obsession is removed...well? Whether slowly, through working the 12 steps, or rapidly, by the remission of addiction with suboxone.
A natural question would be, why would the desire for snorting simply disappear when the obsession to use is lifted? Why wouldn’t it require a great deal of work? Because the snorting is not really the issue but rather it is a trait that is produced by the obsession, and dynamically maintained by the obsession.
It looks to me like you're talking yourself out of one addiction and right into another.
So let's take a look at some of the effects of cocaine addiction.
In the short term as cocaine stimulates the brain, senses can be heightened and users become more talkative and energetic and don't feel the need for basics such as food, water and sleep. Because cocaine has a tendency to decrease appetite users can become malnourished.
Body temperature rises and the heart rate and blood pressure increase. Heavy use of cocaine can cause chest pain, heart problems and convulsions and if taken in large enough doses it can be fatal.
Regular snorting can lead to loss of smell, nosebleeds, problems with swallowing, hoarseness and the "cocaine sniff" - a permanently runny nose.
And it's not just the physical effects that users have to face. Possible long term psychological effects include auditory hallucinations, the dulling of emotions, paranoia, feelings of isolation and impending death are all common adverse effects of coke use.
In closing I would like to point out something you said in your post.
"Control: Interestingly enough, though the opposite is true for most people, I can actually control my cocaine use pretty well. Doing only a few lines an hour isn't very difficult for me."
I'd be willing to bet that this is what you thought when you first starting taking Oxy.
The term ‘denial’ fits nobody better than the active opiate user.
Please know that I am saying these things to you out of genuine concern.
If you think you might be interested I can direct to some really good sites that deal with suboxone treatment.
Please think long and hard before you make a decision about how you are going to proceed.
Take Care,
TinkB

[darawk]

Originally Posted by TinkB

I mean no disrespect to you when I say that I find your method of thinking alarming.
If I'm understanding you correctly you are saying that you think that the act of not snorting is going to be your biggest challenge?

No, it's not the 'act of snorting' per se. It's the fact that psychological addiction is determined in large part by the speed of onset of a drug, or in other words, the time lapse between when you perform an action (snort/swallow/inject/smoke) and when you feel the 'reward'. The reason for this is simply that your brain ties the two events together more closely.

So what you are saying is,the opiate is not the issue, but rather it is the obsession with the snorting of the opiates? When the obsession is removed...well? Whether slowly, through working the 12 steps, or rapidly, by the remission of addiction with suboxone.

No no no, not at all. The issue is that SWIM is psychologically and physically addicted to the high he gets, which at this point, is relatively minimal.

There are a number of good ways out there to get rid of physical withdrawal, like subuxone and the homebrew cocktail I mentioned - or at least, substantially mitigate the effects of withdrawal. However, the psychological factor is still present, and there are no normal treatment options i'm aware of that address it, other than therapy and such. By replacing the opiates with another substance, SWIM hopes to break the physical addiction, because his psychological addiction is what prevents him from slowly tapering off the physical addiction.

The essence of SWIM's point is that cocaine eliminates SWIM's psychological desire for *excess* oxycodone. When SWIM is on a relatively low dose of coke, he only desires oxy when he starts to get relatively serious withdrawal symptoms. And given that, it should be easy for SWIM to slowly taper down when using small amounts of cocaine.

A natural question would be, why would the desire for snorting simply disappear when the obsession to use is lifted? Why wouldn’t it require a great deal of work? Because the snorting is not really the issue but rather it is a trait that is produced by the obsession, and dynamically maintained by the obsession.

It's not that i'm addicted to the snorting - it's that snorting in general is a more addictive route of administration than swallowing. Similarly, smoking is more addictive than snorting (for coke anyway), and injecting is more addictive than smoking.

It looks to me like you're talking yourself out of one addiction and right into another.
So let's take a look at some of the effects of cocaine addiction.

In the short term as cocaine stimulates the brain, senses can be heightened and users become more talkative and energetic and don't feel the need for basics such as food, water and sleep. Because cocaine has a tendency to decrease appetite users can become malnourished.
Body temperature rises and the heart rate and blood pressure increase. Heavy use of cocaine can cause chest pain, heart problems and convulsions and if taken in large enough doses it can be fatal.
Regular snorting can lead to loss of smell, nosebleeds, problems with swallowing, hoarseness and the "cocaine sniff" - a permanently runny nose.
And it's not just the physical effects that users have to face. Possible long term psychological effects include auditory hallucinations, the dulling of emotions, paranoia, feelings of isolation and impending death are all common adverse effects of coke use.

SWIM realizes the adverse effects of cocaine use, and he does not plan to stay on it for very long or at very high doses. SWIM's plan is to stay only moderately high on cocaine throughout most of the day, and SWIM is in very good shape, he just had blood panels and a complete check up done and his heart and cholesterol levels and all of those things are perfectly normal, so he is not too afraid of any such complications.

In closing I would like to point out something you said in your post.
"Control: Interestingly enough, though the opposite is true for most people, I can actually control my cocaine use pretty well. Doing only a few lines an hour isn't very difficult for me."
I'd be willing to bet that this is what you thought when you first starting taking Oxy.
The term ‘denial’ fits nobody better than the active opiate user.
Please know that I am saying these things to you out of genuine concern.
If you think you might be interested I can direct to some really good sites that deal with suboxone treatment.
Please think long and hard before you make a decision about how you are going to proceed.

One thing SWIM is most definitely not in is denial. SWIM is very honest with himself, and he knows he is addicted to Oxy. SWIM knew from the first time he did oxy that it was something he could potentially get addicted to.

SWIM is fully aware of the risk of getting addicted to the cocaine, however, he does not think that it will be a problem for him to quit that substance. SWIM has never really liked coke all that much, and physical withdrawal from it is relatively minimal.

[IntrepidTraveler]

Has SWIY considered tapering his use by taking his OCs orally instead of insufflated? This might keep the amount of Oxycontin (a timed-release formulation of Oxycodone) in his bloodstream constant for a longer period of time, and require fewer redosings.

If SWIY is adamant about switching to a stimulant, maybe some d-amphetamines (adderal) or methylphenidate (ritalin) might work better. SWIM thinks counting on constant cocaine use might potentially burn SWIY out, and would not be as effective as perscription stimulants in getting him through the work day. Does SWIY plan on just going to the bathroom at work and bumping up all day long? It might be hard to concentrate when SWIY is thinking about how badly he needs to re-up every 30-45 minutes.

[Henry Chinanski]

Hi, If Swiy is worried about all the money he is spending. Instead of exchanging his habbit for a coke one why not think about kratom, mildly stimulates the opiiod receptors so therefore SWIY will not have to take off time from work due to WDS, wont have to keep snorting whilst at work (very inconvienient) AND it costs a hell alot less money than both coke and opiate pills
I know in ideal world it would be best not to be addicted to any drug but we dont so SWIY may aswell chose the least damaging and least expensive addiction.
Good luck mate, H Chinaski.

[Henry Chinanski]

Oh yeah AND it's a legal (for now)

[TinkB]

Well it looks like you believe that you have all of your bases covered.
I know that I don't even know you but I just hate to see anyone possibly putting themselves in a bad situation when there might be other alternatives.
So I guess all I can say is please be careful and I'll keep you in my prayers.
Tink