From Belief to Reality - The Theology of Small Gods.

[FuBai]

Caveat: If you are not interested in debating Theology or Philosophy then read no further. There are two separate points - if you are interested in abstract Philosophy and Theology, then the first one is probably for you, if you are more interested in the practice of religion today and the politics of religious states, then the second point might be more interesting for you.

There is an excellent book by a well renowned novelist and satirist known as Terry Pratchett, and the book I want to talk about is called Small Gods. This probably sounds like the beginning of something that shouldn't really be in the insights and mystical experiences forum, but I think that it meshes quite well with the some of the psychedelically inspired theories in here.

To understand the basic premise of the story, the entire thing is set on Mr. Pratchett's usual fantasy world, the Disc World, which gives him the creative licence to say what he likes without really offending people or causing himself legal problems, and also allows him to introduce conceptual ideas in a more physical manner. In this fantasy world there are many Gods in potentia, and these husks of potential are turned into Gods by being believed in - it is the mere fact that the God is believed in that causes the God to actually exist, which is interesting because belief not only must come before the fact, but actually causes the fact. Thus, on the Disc World there are as many Gods as different belief systems and they are all, in their own way, true.

Theology and Philosophy

This is certainly not an original idea of Mr Pratchett, but he does put it in a way that is easily understood by the majority of the populace, but the idea can easily be expanded to look at religion in the real world. When we talk about the Christian God (we shall call him Yahweh here-after) we are talking about something that has, in practical terms, no direct influence on the world - let me explain this, I mean that whether or not you believe that Yahweh exists the world keeps turning, whether or not religion and religious practice with all its trappings are carried out we can safely expect that the sun will come up tomorrow, or that a prayer will not result in, say, a lucky lottery number or sudden relief from a crippling disease. You may fear eternal damnation tomorrow, but today is going to carry on being pretty much like yesterday. Now I understand that this statement will be contentious but bear with me - whilst I am an Atheist I am not damning religion here, or at least not trying to, what I mean is that Yahweh is experienced privately and personally and that physical things happen whether you think they are the work of Yahweh through His divine natural laws which He created for this purpose, or whether you think it is simple mundane scientific principals and that ultimately, if Yahweh does not exist they happen anyway, and if Yahweh does exist they happen anyway. The fact is that Yahweh is almost entirely a personal entity.

You may see where I am going with this - that if a god (any god) is personal and exists in practicality only in our personal perception of Him, then is that perception enough to make Him real? Thus his existence within our minds is the fact of his existence. Some of you will now either be hopelessly confused or thinking "hang on a second, people believe in all kinds of things, so are you saying that faeries or pixies are real too?" For the latter we are going to have to look at that basis of epistemology, the difference between perception and reality. It is our perception of reality that defines all of our reactions to it, and our perceptions do not necessarily provide us with the facts of reality, if indeed one can be said to exist at all. Thus if we have complete faith in the concept that Yahweh has created the world then you will look around you and react to a world that has been created by Yahweh because that is your perception of it. Because of this disconnect between perception and reality and the understanding that perception is the de facto reality even if it is not the real reality, then if you change the perception you change the reality that matters, and that is the one that you react to. And so to all effects and purposes a belief in Yahweh that tallies with perception causes Yahweh to exist in the de facto reality of the individual. So yes, if the belief that faeries exist tallies with the perception of the individual then they can be said to exist.

It all sounds rather complicated, but it probably shouldn't be; you will have to forgive me for not being more clear if you are struggling with it. You must also know that I do not necessarily agree with the above reasoning but I do think it is interesting enough to discuss. The whole problem comes down to a basic definition of "exist" and what this word means, and whether or not it is possible to "exist" if existence is personal and singular to the individual who believes. Must something exist in the de jure reality for it to be really real, or is the practicality and pragmatism of reality in perception alone enough to to sustain existence.

Religion and Politics:

Another fascinating idea that Mr Pratchett raised is the concept that a God can die when people stop believing in the God and start believing in the religious structure that surrounds the God. The example used in the book is that of an oppressive Theocracy, in which they have their own version of the Spanish Inquisition. The inquisition become so feared and the Church structure more governmental than religious which resulted in people being more scared or awed by the structure of the religion than by the God itself. At one point in the book the last surviving believer in the God is told by the God to kill the head of the Inquisition, which he refuses. The God then says "See, you are more frightened of a man than you are of your God."

I think that this idea is a very interesting one and wonder if people from religious areas or who believe themselves see this sort of concept at their place of Worship - does the Church become more of a village meeting place than an actual temple to God etc. I wonder how many people would say that the Anglican Church has suffered this sort of thing?

[augentier]

I agree with the general idea of the first part..reality is subjective and each individual creates his own reality, most people are on the same wavelength so to speak, so reality is generally "the same" throughout the world, but there are people with extreme mental disorders whose perception of reality is bizarre compared to what's common, and may seem unreal to the general population..but in reality it IS real because it is real to the person experiencing it..the experience makes it real. And there I say "in reality"..well, it is true that that person's experience is real even though it seems unreal to us, because it is real to them...does that make any sense? the reality of it is that it is being experienced. i think the same goes for experiences on drugs.

people can't really define reality beyond our basic 5 senses..maybe throw in that 6th sense of gut feeling/instinct in there. of course there are other senses, like the ones achieved by monks, or those who are more aware of their psychic abilities..but most people are oblivious to that. so most people can't sense something that someone who is trained/advanced can, does that mean it's not real? no..it's real, because it was experienced and sensed..though it may not be real in a way that you or i could understand.

[wellhelm]

This seems to be equating belief for reality(from what ive skimmed, maybe I missed the point in my hurried reading) In this context, giving absolute truth to that which is a subjective belief has no value in an objective world independent of the mind, though one may perceive there belief as an absolute. If existence is itself objective and independent of the mind whats true for you must also be true for me, regardless of belief. Though the subjective appearance of a reality is quite convincing to the believer I would argue that its existence in the mind of the believer does not constitute existence itself, merely the appearance of such.

My confusion and questions: Does the fairy manifested in the mind contain essence and identity? How could it be a separate identity from that which manifests and is confined to that manifestation? Is it required to be separate in order for it to have its own "being"? Or does it share being with its manifestos nullifying its own independence making it of the one who manifested? Idk, and DXM, kpin has kicked it in, lol! Someone will hopefully come a long a school swim