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Amp, Coke, DA, 5ht discussion
Swims reason for this thread is he is wondering what causes the stimulant euphoria of coke to be different from amp. What Swim really wants to find out is how a dopamine high works, what different types of dopamine highs are there, and how they differ from a serotonin high.
Swim would like to just state that this was mostly brainstorming/tweaked thinking, so, im not affirming anything I say is actually fact. theyre thoughts.
the amps swim refers to are dextroamphetamine sulfate. not meth.
Before Swim gets to describing about his subjective effects with the two he'd also like to just put something out there he was thinking about. This is the serotonin question. When you do mdma you get euphoria from both the dopamine and serotonin but they are distinctively different. The serotonin euphoria (In general) is the one swim finds to be more satisfying of the two. A dopamine high to swim is certainly enjoyable, but it lacks any of the warmth or 'soul' that 5ht has. A dopamine rush feels exciting and good initially, but even while swims high he feel theres something missing (Usually the next hit :P). DA highs often seems like an unnatturally intense and prolonged feeling that is just stimulating your ID (*which I'll mention something else about later in the post). Swim thought these two excerpts from wikipedia about dopamine and about freuds psychoanalytic model. Swim finds it very interesting to find out how and why our bodies work the way they do, and how much we can learn from ourselves through tinkering with them.
Dopamine's role in experiencing pleasure has been questioned by several researchers. It has been argued that dopamine is more associated with anticipatory desire and motivation (commonly referred to as "wanting") as opposed to actual consummatory pleasure (commonly referred to as "liking"). Dopamine is not released when unpleasant or aversive stimuli are encountered, and so motivates towards the pleasure of avoiding or removing the unpleasant stimuli.
The id is responsible for our basic drives such as food, sex, and aggressive impulses. It is amoral and egocentric, ruled by the pleasure–pain principle; it is without a sense of time, completely illogical, primarily sexual, infantile in its emotional development, and will not take "no" for an answer. It is regarded as the reservoir of the libido or "love energy".
Amphetamines : Swim will assume that everyone knows the general effects of amphetamines and realizes all experiences are subjective. Despite the similarities between amps and coke, they certainly feel different, yet vaguely similar. Both primarily having a dopaminergic effect, however each effects some different receptor than the other does.
To swim, comparing an amphetamine to cocaine would be like comparing motivation to desire.
Amphetamines, psychologically, feel like they increase your motivation, confidence and clarity. Swim feels like amps make you more productive and focused because they cause you to release a bunch of DA, but they also block the DA from re uptake. This is why at therapeutic doses swim thinks it helps so much with problem solving as well as performing mundane tasks. With DA being released and blocked from removal it leaves your mind drenched in DA, overlapping all your normal thoughts and drives with that anticipatory desire, the wanting feeling. You want to clean everything, organize everything, talk to everyone, know everything, life just becomes so meaningful and anything may satisfy his undirected feeling of anticipation. With all that DA, Swim also feels that the desire to do many tasks coupled with the confidence and rewarding feeling of completing tasks (no matter how mundane) are what lead to the "euphoria".
WIth coke, its somewhat different. Swim feels its a much more social stimulant than amp can be. Amp certainly can keep someone on a rant for hours, but you can also find pleasure just doing simple chores or accomplishing something. Coke makes swim feel like an electrical charge got delivered to his id. The DA stimulant effects are still somewhat there, however they take on a new arch. On coke, swim isn't an feeling an aimless feeling of anticipation or motivation to do just go accomplish tasks for the sake of satisfaction, instead its now a more introverted DA high. Swim begins to feel pleasure when he trys to organize things still, but he finds himself usually evaluating his position among his peers and thinking about how he could be the best, coolest, alpha male okinda dude..Socializing with others isn't because learning new things or interacting with people is interesting, but now its because Swim just adores the feeling of attention and importance. He feels like he has become so amazing that other people must atleast be made aware of his presenence if they dont seem to be focused on swim. Swim feels interested in every aspect of swimself. Every feeling swim has is intense, which feels exciting at first but theres also the anticipatory feeling from that DA that makes swim feel like he has an unsatisfied want. This can be bad when you feel so intense about everything, and you have such overwhelming desire and want. Swim either wants something to the point where he would get aggressive rather than take no for an answer or he just completely can disregard other things that dont capture his interest. Swim feels that the reason cokes comedown seems so much more unpleasant is because when all the DA wears out, you no longer feel the intense interest in yourself, none of the confidence or intesity or power. Swim feels depressed because he has fried his brain with DA and now just feels helpless, unmotivated, weak. To add to the problem, cokes afteraffects during the crash still leave one motivator that can re open the world of meaning and joy.
To sum it up, Swims theory is that amps are not as intense because the DA receptors they affect seem to increase interest in the external world, with the ability to think more clearly and rationalize. In a way, Amps make swim feel as if he were a mechanical animal THe crash from amp sucks, you feel dull and uninterested in anything, tired, weak, basically just the opposite of while ur on the speed
Coke certainly is more euphoric and fun to do, but also comes with some bigger drawbacks. Swim isn't really focused about things, he is excited. He feels excited to be himself, excited just to exist. There just feels like theres no depth to it whatsoever though. Swim feels even worse when the crash makes him feel not only unable to be interested or find pleasure in anything around him, but he now also has the internal sketchiness from within where he cannot feel content or happy with himself unless he satisfies his most extreme want. another line. lol. .
also he thinks the way that cocaine acts with DA seems similar to an MDMA high (A feeling of excitement, confidence, and interest in yourself) except without any of the depth and never feeling really content.
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16-12-2007, 21:57
-- in swim's experience, he finds a balance of all to be enjoyable but too much of any to be uncomfortable
Hybrid Mode
