Drug info - The Comprehensive Diphenhydramine and Dimenhydrinate Information Thread

[chrisn]

I didn't see any thread in this forum where all information on using these two drugs is gathered, so I figured I would make one to make finding information on these drugs a little easier.

Note that this document is not meant to recommend using this drug, only to acknowledge the fact that people do in fact use this drug and help promote safe usage and reduce any possible harm.

Before I discuss anything more about this drug, I will put forth two recommendations.

1. Start with low dosages and work up. People often have drastically different reactions to the same dosages. While reading experience reports may give an idea of what dosages produce what effects, there is no guarantee they will translate to you.

2. Use a sober trip sitter if possible. At high dosages, the delirium produced by this drug may make it impossible to differentiate between hallucinations and reality. People have been known to reach into a burning fire, thinking they were grabbing a pencil off of their desk.

BASIC INFO

Diphenhydramine (DPH) and Dimenhydrinate (DMH) are essentially the same drug. Specifically, DMH is the 8-chlorotheophyllinate salt of DPH. What this means is that DMH is DPH attached to a weak stimulant similar to caffeine. Therefore, the only real differences between the two drugs is that DPH is stronger (29 mg of DPH is the same as 50 mg of DMH), and DPH will probably start affecting the user faster. Also, a user may be less likely to fall asleep on DMH, but the sedative properties of DPH far outweigh the stimulant properties of what is attached to it.

Some of the main brands of OTC drugs that contain DMH are Dramamine and Gravol, while some of the main brands of OTC drugs that contain DPH are Benedryl, Nytol, and Sominex. However, no one should rely on just brand names to assume they have the proper drug. For example, Benedryl in the UK contains other chemicals that are far more toxic, so one should always check the active ingredients they have and make sure there is only Diphenhydramine or Dimenhydrinate. Often times these drugs are packaged with acetaminophen, which can be very toxic in high dosages, so also watch out for this.

From here on out, I will mostly refer to only DPH, but apart from the dosage and perhaps the timeline, everything else about these drugs are essentially the same.

CONTRAINDICTIONS

- Do not take if you are on MAOI's
- Do not take if you have glaucoma, enlargement of prostrate, or urinary obstructions
- Do not take if you have any breathing problems such as emphysema or particularly bad asthma
- Do not take if you a stomach ulcer

DOSAGES

It is possible that you may have an allergy to this drug! Never take a large dose before having tried a very small dose on its own previously.

DPH usually comes in 25 or 50mg dosages. The following table should give an idea of how many pills one should take depending on the effect they are looking for.

Diphenhydramine Dosages
Light: 25 - 150 mg
Medium: 150 - 350 mg
Strong: 250 - 500 mg
Very Strong: 400 - 800 mg
Dangerous: 800+ mg

Effective dosages vary greatly from person to person, based on factors such as body weight, tolerance, and other unknowns. There have been people taking doses higher than 800 mg and have been high, but once someone gets to dosages that high, it begins to put strain on his or her heart.

Tolerance develops extremely fast for DPH and seems to disappear slowly, so it is a good idea to space out DPH trips rather than increasing one's dosage to compensate for this tolerance. Compensation can become dangerous, because it is impossible to tell at exactly what dose DPH will become dangerous to one's health.

DMH dosages are roughly twice those of DPH dosages, as if you remember from earlier, there are 29 mg of DPH per 50 mg of DMH.

Dimenhydrinate Dosages
Light: 50 - 300 mg
Medium: 250 - 650 mg
Strong: 450 - 900 mg
Very Strong: 700 - 1400 mg
Dangerous: 1400+ mg

The timeline of DPH can vary greatly depending on the same factors as dosage. It can take anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours to completely come up, one should be very hesitant to redose if they are not getting the effects they desire. The full experience usually lasts 4 to 8 hours, but in cases of tolerance, drastically different effects can occur. For some users, they may find themselves back at baseline within two hours. There has also been a case where a subject took 600 mg of DPH, felt nothing for a few hours, redosed another 600 mg, and then woke up to find themselves in the hospital, having almost died of heart failure. As you can see, this is not a drug to be taken lightly.

Also note that DMH has a slightly slower timeline than DPH, as one's body has to separate the two parts of the molecule (DPH and the weak stimulant).

While a user may feel at baseline after five or so hours, very subtle effects often persist for as long as 24 hours, and in rare cases even for a few days.

EFFECTS

DPH and DMH are commonly called antihistamines (meaning they block the effect of histamine at the H1 receptor sites) and are used for a wide range of effects, ranging from allergy and itching relief, to sleep aids, to nausea relief. However, in addition to their antihistamine effect, they also have an anticholinergic effect (specifically antagonizing the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors), which means that at higher doses, they can cause an interesting delirium that some find enjoyable. However, there are also numerous side effects associated with this state that will deter many people from using the drug.

Positive Effects
- Muscle relaxation
- Music appreciation - This effect varies widely from person to person, but it is generally agreed that DPH does enhance music. Some various comments I have heard are "listening to any song sounds like you are listening to it for the first time, it is never boring," "it smooths out music and makes it more enjoyable." Some people say it gives a darker and creepier edge to music.
- Mixture of dreaming and reality - Perhaps the most interesting effect of DPH is that it causes people to dream while they are awake. This can be a very positive experience, but also a very negative as dreams are well known to be. Users can often have much more vivid dreams after the intoxication is over. Here is a description of how the dream-reality combination often occurs: "All of his thought patterns would turn into conversations with himself, or other people. Some conversations were actually reproductions of real conversations he had had in the past week. These thought-conversations would slowly get more and more real. Eventually, he would always feel compelled to say something out loud. He would struggle for a while, not sure if he really wanted to, but would always eventually say it. This would suddenly bring him back to reality, he would realize that there was no one in the room he was talking to, and his voice would sound foreign and distant."

Neutral Effects
- Time dilation (one minute may feel like 20)
- Extreme short-term memory impairment (at higher doses it becomes difficult to even finish sentences)
- Extreme sedation at higher doses, difficulty staying awake
- Flushed skin
- Feelings of intense gravity or extreme heaviness, feeling like one weighs thousands of pounds
- Unusual thoughts, speech, and behavior
- Visual and auditory hallucinations - This is one of the most sought after effects, and it can range from seeing simple patterns on the walls, to having conversations with people that are not there. This can be pleasant, interesting, terrifying, or even dangerous, because at high enough doses it becomes impossible to distinguish hallucinations from reality. A very common hallucination is seeing small insects that do not exist. Perhaps a small speck on the wall will be interpreted as a small fly. Many people see realistic spiders everywhere and proceed to get extremely terrified. Some have scratched nonexistent bugs on their skin to the point of bleeding. Because what someone will see is so unpredictable, one should be extremely careful using this drug.

Negative Effects
- Dry mouth
- Frequent urination, or possible urinary retention
- Sexual dysfunction (though I have heard of a few cases of sexual enhancement in low to moderate doses)
- Blurred vision
- Confusion
- Discomfort, dizziness, loss of coordination
- Uncontrollable muscle twitches or cramps, restless leg syndrome (less common)
- Nervousness, anxiety
- Nausea (at higher doses, less common)
- Vomiting (very rare, in fact most users would have trouble vomiting if they tried due to DPH's antiemitic effects)
- Amnesia, loss of memory of the experience afterwards

Overdose Effects
- Dangerously high heart rate, heart attack or cardiac arrhythmias
- Possible hepatotoxicity

Longterm Effects
- No one is really sure what the longterm effects of heavy DPH use are. It is not recommended due to the fast tolerance building, and there are anecdotal reports of depression, brain and/or stomach damage, and other problems.

COMBINATIONS

DPH has been combined with other drugs by many users, I will try to cover most of the combinations here and point out which are dangerous.

Marijuana - Anecdotally, marijuana seems to alleviate some of the unpleasant side effects of DPH (although certainly not dry mouth) while slightly enhancing the visual and auditory hallucinations. It is possible that marijuana could increase one's heart rate further than what DPH does, but unless a very large dose of DPH was taken, this will probably not be dangerous. Most agree that this is a good drug to combine with DPH.

Stimulants - Many people have turned to stimulants to attempt to combat the strong sedation caused by DPH. This is generally not recommended, because it may stress the heart to dangerous levels, however something mild like caffeine will probably be fine. Avoid stronger stimulants like cocaine or amphetamines.

Alcohol or other sedatives - Generally not recommended, the sedative effects of each drug will compound the other, being possibly dangerous, and most likely very unpleasant (excessive dizziness is a likely effect).

Opiates - Small doses of DPH combine very well with opiates, as they reduce the side effects of opiates such as itching and nausea, as well as potentiating the opiates somewhat. Bad reactions can occur taking more than about 125 mg of DPH, or 200 mg of DMH.

DXM - Medium or high doses of DPH should never be combined with DXM, as DPH has weak SSRI activity and this could lead to the unpleasant and potentially deadly serotonin syndrome. Also, combining these two drugs would likely create an extremely terrifying and unpleasant trip mentally, with the user begging to come down. Very small doses of DPH might alleviate some of the side effects of DXM, however, such as the robo-itch.

Psychedelics - Not recommended, the possibility of a scary trip is almost assured. One user took just 50 mg of DPH during a mushroom trip and very quickly descended into a confused and scared mental state. However a smaller dose, perhaps just 25 mg could relieve the nausea caused by some psychedelics.


Feel free to reply with any other important information that I left out.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good info, thanks.
	good thread
	Very Informative
	Best overall thing on the web about DPH. Well done.
	Nicely arranged and well stated. A valuable contribution to the D.A. sub forum.