Health - Ketamine safe in clinical research.... ?

[118118]

Hi. I've found some research that says that Ketamine, has no long term effects, for participants with schizophrenia, in psychiatric research.

I wondered, if anyone can come up with any infomation, on the similarity/difference between drug effects in the lab versus recreational use.

Someone has suggested, that though it may be safe to use in psychiatric research, it may not be safe (have no long term effect on the course of the illness), in recreational use.

Thanks

118118

[screwed99]

SWIM can't find information specifically comparing the two but this is some good info SWIM got off www.urban75.com which should be helpful to educating any Ketamine users and people interested in the drug:

"Health risks: No one knows what the long-term effects of taking ketamine regularly are. Because of its anaesthetic qualities, people have been known to hurt themselves and not realise until the following day. Ketamine should not be taken with respiratory depressants, primarily alcohol, barbiturates, or Valium and because of the uncertain interaction with other drugs, it is advised not to mix ketamine with anything. Large doses could induce unconsciousness which could lead to cardiovascular failure. Although not physically addictive, some users have a developed a strong habit.

A BBC report in May 2000 claimed that medical research had shown that controlled tests on ketamine users had revealed impaired memory and mild schizophrenia several days after taking the drug.

There have been media reports of Ketamine being used as a 'date rape' drug. Make sure you take it with at least one 'straight' friend around."

I have also found this very revealing and quite different report on Erowid:

"White's Argument #

William White's article begins by stating that it "covers a type of brain damage known as NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity or Olney's Lesions (after the researcher who discovered it)." He suggests this type of brain damage can be caused by dissociative anaesthetics including "ketamine, PCP, dextromethorphan, and nitrous oxide" and then lists a set of "Summary Findings":

• Dissociatives definitely cause brain damage if used heavily. One sub-anesthetic "line dose" of ketamine, an equivalent dose of PCP, or a third plateau DXM dose, is probably at least as damaging to your brain as a few day "bender" and possibly more so because it affects specific areas of the brain.
• The risk of brain damage is worse the longer you stay high at any given time; constant moderate-dose use is probably just as damaging as a brief, high-dose use.
• Reaching the anaesthetic level is exceedingly hard on your brain.
• Ketamine is probably the least harmful, PCP the most, and DXM somewhere in the middle, but this is a rough guesstimate. Nitrous oxide is brief acting, but it too may be dangerous; it is also known to damage both central and peripheral nerves by depleting vitamin B12

--William E. White, 28 November 19983"

and also this from Erowid as well:

"To put it bluntly, taking excessive doses of dissociatives makes certain parts of your brain fry like the proverbial egg-on-the-frying-pan in the 'This is Your Brain on Drugs' commercial." --William E. White, 28 November 19985

If you want to read the full article this is the actual link:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health2.shtml

[Niteflights]

The intriguing nuance to Olney's research is his discovery that certain substances completely block the neurotoxic lesions (in mice of course). One of the substances indicated is LSD-25!

This is quite interesting from several perspectives. Whether or not the lesions are reproducible in primates or humans, there can be little doubt that heavy ketamine use causes serious side effects. However, chances are if LSD blocks ketamine neurotoxicity, so do other serotonergic RCs (tryptamines). Not to mention they can make an unbeatable combination in the right setting.

Now somehow I find it hard to believe that Dr. Olney would specifically choose to test LSD's effects on his infamous lesions just for the hell of it. Sounds like his lab rats where paying visits to the white hole at the end of the big bang.

In any case, I think his research still holds a great deal of merit despite the amateur rebuttals and William White's retraction. Anyone who has known a heavy dissociative user for any amount of time can attest to their rapid decline in ability to string a sentence together. Better safe then sorry. I would suggest trying a light tryptamine with your next plateau sigma/k hole/nitrous shenanigan. Just be careful and try to have a sitter. The synergy between dissociatives and tryptamines is quite profound, creating an exponentially stronger experience, probably stronger than anything else you have experienced from a single chemical... definitely in league with 5meo-dmt.

The upside is you can cut the doses of both in half, lowering the toxicity on your brain and body. SWIM's lab Chihuahua has reported that in addition to a full VR OBE NDE, the nogin is much less affected the next day. Thank you Mr. Olney for you valuable research!

Cheers,
Andrei