Dextromethorphan (DXM) and alcoholism: 11mo. follow-up

[bcubed]

Background: Patient was a 35-y.o. male. At time of initial treatment with DXM, he had been in and out of "recovery" for 10 years. He'd only shortly before DXM treatment, however, been sufficiently physically addicted to require medical intervention (in the form of Valium), at which time elevated liver enzymes were noted. He was NOT alcohol-dependent at the time of initial dose of DXM (700mg, which was not consumed for thereapeutic purposes and can be read about here:drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9946&page=6 (http://drugs-forum.com/forum/drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9946&page=6)). The first DXM experience is discussed there; it will not be repeated here. Two more DXM treatments (these times for therepeutic effect) were taken: 700mg at 3mo and 350mg at 3.5mo after, with effects similar to the first episode.

At this point, I'll relay the patient's observations:

After coming off the first DXM trip, I was somewhat overwhelmed with the fairly brutal insights gained and was very disinclined to consume more alcohol for a period of about 2 mo. After that, I had a few drinks (5?) and figured my old pattern of heavy drinking would resume. Amazingly, it didn't. I developed a pattern of periodic moderate drinking (i.e. 3-5 drinks for my 210#/95kg frame). I decided I would monitor my consumption patterns for 1yr and tentatively claim "success" after that period.

It seems I have averaged about 2 drinks/day, varying between 0-8. Recently, I've probably been drinking less per episode but more often. There seems to be a mild disinclination for extreme levels of intoxication (the two times I consumed 8 drinks it was because I found it advantageous to do so); yet this disinclination changes to (lessened) "bingey" drives past some point. Preferring moderate intoxication levels is VERY unlike my old behavior, as I was very much a "binger."

At no point did I return to dependence, nor have I had any addiction issues with other drugs used (poppy tea, salvia, cannabis.) I would consider myself "cured" of alcoholsim, and I would credit the DXM for causing this.

So: why DXM? Here's an excellent thread by Richard Smoker: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17606&highlight=dxm

Was patient alcoholic? Confidently yes.

Is patient currently alcoholic? Depends on how defined. If you mean cessation of dependence or destrcutive behavior associated with use, then no. Some definitions of binge drinking (mostly those that don't account for body mass) would consider him to "binge" about 3x/mo. Also, most addiction specialists consider the "alcoholic" label to be permanent; having had experience with the medical community, direct evidence contrary to their belief usually does little to sway them.

Could this have been caused by something other than DXM? Well, with a sample size of 1, you really can't rule anyting out. However, considering that he'd spent 10 years trying, and acheived these results more or less immediately after DXM use, his mind is made up. Particularly, he'd never before been able to make anything like 9mo with predominantly non-harmful drinking.

Finally, I had trepidations about posting this: DXM is a drug with a fairly high body load, and addiction issues of its own, as can be referenced at the relevant sub-forum. Also, I worried that my non-medical opinion might result in certain SWIMmers following this example at the exclusion of other, possibly more profitable avenues. At the same time, though, I wouldn't want to sit on a potential answer, either. So: I offer this, to use or not to, only to caution SWIY to use due deliberation prior to any such experimental treatment regime.

[dodi]

This seems very typical of trips.

a user trips out, analyzes himself, and attempts to make change for the better, or they just feel as if they don't want something anymore they want something else.

You can pretty much brainwash yourself into what ever you want, especially after any profound experiences. Your just now on the edge of learning to control your drugs

gl staying clean.

[Panthers007]

This sort of treatment has been tried with LSD25 starting in the 1950's. With limited success. It was noted that psychedelics were valuable in providing insight to the person seeking help. But they were also difficult for many people to understand the subtle details they were confronted with. Read: LSD25 can elicit very complex ideas and definitions.

DXM, on the other hand, tends to elicit a very clear image of large issues facing the person seeking understanding of the aspects of their psyche they wish to change. In this way DXM shows greater potential for allowing clarity and insight to be gained.

[tip]

Swim use to be a submerged piss tank, and started at age 18. Swim turned against drugs at the easily manipulated age of 19, and was brainwashed in to believing that weed, LSD and Speed destroyed swims life. Well in the case of speed it’s pretty much true. However swim became a beer drinking pisser, complete with a beer gut and a fat arse. This habit turned in to daily 6 to 8 standard beers and 2 bourbons at most nights. Swim became a bum, mentally clouded, fat fuck, diarrhea spraying monster! Swim turned to pseudoephedrine in cold and flue pills to keep up to the demands of university and shit part time work in department stores. This continued for 3 years and swim was a brainwashed monster, a pure product of the system believing in the very system that suppresses consciousness. Now swim changed to another brand of cold and flue tabs containing DXM unknowingly. Swim began to slightly trip out and gain mental clarity but swim presumed it was possibly the different type of pseudo combination in the pills, and then swim discovered that swim didn’t need to drink on these cold tabs! Not like the raging desire to drink more caused by the non DXM pseudo pills!! What was happening? Swim just didn’t need to drink on the pills! Then 2 years later still using DXM and not drinking anywhere as much, Swim got heavily in to meditation and hypnosis, in a desperate attempt to change swims life. Well fuck Swim!! Within the space of 1 year swim swapped collages and told his teachers to fuck off who would keep failing students to keep the numbers up (swim couldn’t see this before the DXM) and graduated at another college! Swim also in the same year got a $55,000 per year job compared to the $12,000 per year shit store work. What the fuck was happening to swim!! Swim had a magic pill!!! But didn’t understand what was in them, swim developed powerful meditation techniques under the influence of DXM and was literally manifesting everything swim desired a lot faster than normal, it just worked, then swim discovered that DXM was the key when the FDA pulled this type of brand the shelves permanently. Swim needed more DXM and drank swims first bottle of robo after discovering UK Drugs forum. And travelled deep in to the dimension of the source of creation it was like coming home swim then got in to the DMT and had yopo snuff experiences more powerful then the DXM experiments. With in these 3 months swim dropped the alcohol and never came back. Swim has used the power of psychedelics ever since swim has not sipped a drop of the piss in the last 3 years and uses DMT, LSD and DXM frequently to resolve problems and gain insight and to manifest!!! Swims life now works, or is in what you would call the flow state.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

This sort of treatment has been tried with LSD25 starting in the 1950's. With limited success. It was noted that psychedelics were valuable in providing insight to the person seeking help. But they were also difficult for many people to understand the subtle details they were confronted with. Read: LSD25 can elicit very complex ideas and definitions.

DXM, on the other hand, tends to elicit a very clear image of large issues facing the person seeking understanding of the aspects of their psyche they wish to change. In this way DXM shows greater potential for allowing clarity and insight to be gained.

Is that really the best description of the dxm experience?Swim tried his hardest to get this out of dxm but felt cheated.All swim did was feel really weird,disconnected,and completely out of it.

[tip]

Is that really the best description of the dxm experience?Swim tried his hardest to get this out of dxm but felt cheated.All swim did was feel really weird,disconnected,and completely out of it. Yes swim agrees but these insights are a given to you and not really a product of DXM effects itself. DXM opens a gateway to allow entities evil and good to give you information. Swim had a vision on DXM about a woman he knew whom had mental problems; the vision was intense and frightening like someone shouting at you to take notice. It implied that she was skitsophrenic and dangerous. Later that week she attempted to kill her father. This is no shitt. Maybe people shouldn’t go there. :eek:

[bcubed]

Per a request (some time ago), I want to elaborate a bit.

Lizard still hasn't had any adverse consequences from drinking, in fact, he probably has scaled back a bit from the OP. Most often, he usually only does so when he's out "seeking feminine comanionship" (needs sex and/or love). Alcohol is basically therepeutically useful there.

He's also gone through some positive changes, all post-DXM and post-alcoholism. Certainly this could be a side effect of ending an addiction, but lizard credits it to a partciular facet of the DXM experience, during which he was at a construction site similar to the ones where he and his HS GF would fool around almost 2 decades prior. He experienced the SENSATION of being 18 and 35 simultaneously and realized how much better things were for him at 18. This is almost what one might hope for ("expect" probably too strong) from a drug-related treatment of addiction.

What still baffles him, however, is that his drive towards alcohol seems permanently(?) changed. Ever since his first time drinking enough for an effect, alcohol was a very "moreish" drug--stopping was difficult and essentially a case of logic overriding desire. Also, even when not drinking, a drive towards alcohol (similar to--and as strong as--the sex drive) existed ever since first drinking at 8. Both of these phenomena have been acutely altered. It's hard to describe, but as noticible as if his sex drive suddenly disappeared: impossible to mistake!

He can't really make sense of this from the aspect of "insights from psychadelics," however. To his medically untrained mind, it almost seems a pharmocolgical side effect such as Iboga erasing opiate dependency.

Also, having been both addicted and in 12-step recovery prior, he asserts there seems to be a state of mind that's different from both "sobriety" and addiction.

Just a warning: I'd be VERY hesitant to suggest anySWIY get the idea "Hey, I'll just Robotrip and then begin drinking like a normal human being!" YMMV, and I wouldn't toss out something that DOES work for something that MIGHT work for you!