View Full Version : Is love a dangerous addicting drug ?
Micutzul
17-12-2007, 21:05
Do you consider love to be a drug ? Not in the meaning that it is a chemical substance , but in the sense that it is something , which alters your state of mind and thus alters the normal ratio/neutral functioning of chemicals in your brain
Now ,in the regard of love being addicting , i think this is pretty obvious for everyone who has experienced .
What i think will be a very interesting debate is whether it is dangerous ?
I am going to express my opinion on the subject and it will seem radical , but it is my honest opinion .I bet not many people give this much thought , when they wish that they were in love , when they feel unloved , and when they notice they are falling in love .
I consider love to be the most dangerous drug/thing on earth .Love CAN kill you , and has killed many people : those who have commited suicide over losing a loved one , or the mutuality of the feeling .
Love withdrawal can ruin lives , can send you plummeting into a depression that you may never recover from . The horrible state of being depressed becuase of lack of love can cause problems in the health , job , social relationships areas , virtually in any area .
In specific regard to health , it can be very damaging , causing poor eating habits , even in it's positive " everything is going well form " , and especially in it's withdrawal . Not only poor eating habits , but raised levels of stress hormones which damage health , and a general state of lack of motivation , anger , depression , frustration , all of which have very negative effects on health , even if just on the immune system ( the most studied of it's effects ) .
Notice i have emphasised that it " CAN " . But , considering reality , it should be more like " WILL " . Because a very big percentage of love stories eventually end . Many of them end in not very pleasant terms , and many of them end just on one side , leaving at least one of the lovers in psychological suffering . This suffering will lead to all the effects that i've stated above . So love not only " CAN " but probably it "WILL " hurt you physically and psychologically .
Why is it the most dangerous ? Because everybody craves for it to a certain degree and most people actually look for it , they want to be in love . And even after negative experience with it , after a while they still look for it , they don't learn that it can hurt them , they just say : "well..it hurt me that time , in the future i hope it won't , i just wanna feel good by loving and being loved ". I think that's typical addict behaviour. Just replace " loving and being loved " with " shooting meth " in the above sentence and you'lle see where i'm going.
Oh , and just because it's natural , doesn't make it alright . For example , when you are extremely enraged it is natural to just start hitting the object(person ) of your rage very powerfully with intent to provoke damage , that's what Homo Sapiens's genetical predisposition tells you to do ( as a defense mechanism or as a way of asserting vital superiority/dominance) . But still , in our society , i think most people would admit that doing it is wrong .
razorwiredildo
17-12-2007, 21:41
I didn't read the entire post, but love, just like any drug, is a feeling caused by abnormal activities in your neurotransmitters.
The extreme passionate love is basically a surge of dopamine norepinephrine and some other stuff. (kind of like speed?)
Most other types are caused by oxytocin i believe.
but yeah, if you look at love and look at most drugs, they are very similar.
^^^ With such a nickname, swim can only conclude it is ;)
It can potentially be dangerous. Not physically, he doesn't believe that. The bad eating habits won't kill you instantly. Some people eat everyday at MacDonalds. Or some don't eat at all. It takes a long time to actually die...
But mentally it can wreck one. If one falls into the hands of a skilled fraud, who uses love to manipulate people. It is a dangerous thing. One can end up with debts, which one is never able to pay back. It is not difficult to think up more examples.
Wow, you certainly are a cynical one...
I think although you are right that Love can cause a lot of harm, I think it is necessary to live in a world full of love. Not having love for anything due to fear of hurt is just as bad if not worse than risking falling in love. You always run the risk of being hurt in a relationship but that majority of people will move on from rejection and start again.
Not only that, but the painful experiences in life are just as valuable as the good experiences. They build you as a person and define you. To try not to fall in love due to fear of getting hurt is going to limit your life experiences, and I believe while on this planet everyone should experience as much of everything they possibly can.
Micutzul
18-12-2007, 09:11
^^^ With such a nickname, swim can only conclude it is ;)
It can potentially be dangerous. Not physically, he doesn't believe that. The bad eating habits won't kill you instantly. Some people eat everyday at MacDonalds. Or some don't eat at all. It takes a long time to actually die...
But mentally it can wreck one. If one falls into the hands of a skilled fraud, who uses love to manipulate people. It is a dangerous thing. One can end up with debts, which one is never able to pay back. It is not difficult to think up more examples.
Well , it takes a long time to die , but being heavily depressed and barely touching food for many days in a row could cause an ulcer , for example , if other conditions are right . And being mentally hurt eventually hurts you physically too. ( Physical danger doesn't necesarily mean it kills you )
As for insert username here's post , you are right to a degree. Most of the times , the only thing worse than loving is not loving . But - experiencing as much of everything as possible , there i disagree , and i think you would too if you realised that the everything category includes EVERYTHING - rape , murder , jumping off cliffs , etc .
^^ Yes, that could happen. One could also die during sex. Also a possibility. Your heart is already beating faster, when in love. During sex it will beat even faster. With the 'right' condition, it will fail. Hopefully, this group of lucky ones isn't too great. I am not sure about that.
I'm maybe cynical (or realistic as I call my condition myself), but it is true love can hurt. I do see bad experiences are necessary. They make one stronger. They can help one differentiate between people and experiences. I really don't believe I should love as much people as possible. My love is an important thing for me. I value it high. I don't want to give that to everybody.
Nature Boy
18-12-2007, 15:51
Conditional love is something that comes out of the blue, lingers and eventually dies if not satisfied. When it dies you lose something that can never be regained. Whether this is advantageous or disadvantageous is entirely down to how you perceive it. Overcoming emotional anguish is beneficial but in managing to do this, do you lose part of your ability to love again?
Micutzul
18-12-2007, 17:07
Conditional love is something that comes out of the blue, lingers and eventually dies if not satisfied. When it dies you lose something that can never be regained. Whether this is advantageous or disadvantageous is entirely down to how you perceive it. Overcoming emotional anguish is beneficial but in managing to do this, do you lose part of your ability to love again?
In my opinion , everybody copes with emotional suffering differently . With love , some people just hope that maybe in another place , another time it will be better and some people raise defensive walls around theirs soul and try to repress their feelings so that they don't get hurt/humiliated again .
I would say these are the two general aproaches , with infinite variations .
Both aproaches have pro's and con's , but i feel the second is more difficult .
But - experiencing as much of everything as possible , there i disagree , and i think you would too if you realised that the everything category includes EVERYTHING - rape , murder , jumping off cliffs , etc .
Obviously I wasn't referring to things that would result in harm coming to others, that's just taking what I said to the absolute extreme.
Micutzul
20-12-2007, 11:46
Obviously I wasn't referring to things that would result in harm coming to others, that's just taking what I said to the absolute extreme.
I don't think of it as the absolute extreme . But i would usually be very carefull when speaking of " everything " . Anyway , leaving technical matters aside , love has caused harm to others and deaths . People have killed for love , and have killed themselves for love . People have abandoned friends , hurt people they care about it and a lot of other harmfull things while under the blinding shroud of love . Why can't everybody seem to accept this with an open mind ? Maybe i'm just more cinical than the average . Maybe they don't want to see all the sides of love. It's possible . And of course , i could be wrong .But information about love is everywhere around us and most have experienced it .Draw your own conclusions .
Then you add lust to the equation and things just get crazy and confusing.
Lust pops up, when your body is in love. Our minds and bodies seems to have conflicting definitions of what the rules of love has to be. My mind wants to bind to one, but my body to many. This conflict can be solved, the confusing be raised. But it is not a solution society is going to accept.
Micutzul
21-12-2007, 09:44
Lust pops up, when your body is in love. Our minds and bodies seems to have conflicting definitions of what the rules of love has to be. My mind wants to bind to one, but my body to many. This conflict can be solved, the confusing be raised. But it is not a solution society is going to accept.
What solution are you talking about ?
Of course that any solution regarding the problems of love wouldn't be accepted . I started this post , knowing fully that many people are so wired into their believes about love , that nothing could even scratch the surface . It's not just their fault . Religion , society , family , popular art , movies ...almost everything has programmed them this way . Plus , they wouldn't want to see the truth . The truth regarding love is sad and many people wouldn't want to accept it .(notice my signature ). Sometimes it is so much easier to just live in an illusion.
For example one could have a intimate and deep relationship with another, but also have superficial sexual relationships with others. But many people (including myself) have the feeling their partner could fall in love with another and leave them. Of course when there is full trust and the relationship is strong enough, the latter wont happen. Of course it is possible to fall in love with someone -this can always happen, but sex can trigger it-. But it is possible to overcome it.
Micutzul
22-12-2007, 11:57
For example one could have a intimate and deep relationship with another, but also have superficial sexual relationships with others. But many people (including myself) have the feeling their partner could fall in love with another and leave them. Of course when there is full trust and the relationship is strong enough, the latter wont happen. Of course it is possible to fall in love with someone -this can always happen, but sex can trigger it-. But it is possible to overcome it.
Well , what is practically called cheating won't be accepted any time soon in this traditionally monogamous society.
Besides , i don't think it would help . As long as people are not in control of their minds and soul , having superficial relationships with more people , would just increase the chances of things going wrong either with the deep and intimate relationship , or with these superficial relationshops . And , in my opinion , it is virtually impossible for average humans to exert control over their minds sould , to such a degree that they could control very strong feelings , such as intense love and intense hate . I believe some have succeeded , partially , but even those have spent their entire lives in meditation and strict mental training to achieve this .
So , honestly , i don't think there are any solutions , except maybe something in the lines of the movie Equilibrium ( i recommend it for an additional point of view on this matter ) . But that would be to radical in my opinion .
Psych0naut
22-12-2007, 15:05
Well , what is practically called cheating won't be accepted any time soon in this traditionally monogamous society.
Besides , i don't think it would help . As long as people are not in control of their minds and soul , having superficial relationships with more people , would just increase the chances of things going wrong either with the deep and intimate relationship , or with these superficial relationshops . And , in my opinion , it is virtually impossible for average humans to exert control over their minds sould , to such a degree that they could control very strong feelings , such as intense love and intense hate . I believe some have succeeded , partially , but even those have spent their entire lives in meditation and strict mental training to achieve this .
So , honestly , i don't think there are any solutions , except maybe something in the lines of the movie Equilibrium ( i recommend it for an additional point of view on this matter ) . But that would be to radical in my opinion .I couldn't agree with you more. Many people have left their husband or wife for someone else, even though they had a good marriage, and genuinely loved each other, but someone else just came into their lifes which all changed it, and made them leave the person they were married to. Just as some people fall in love at first sight, it can also happen while they're already in love with someone else, and have a relationship with that person. Which could lead to cheating or leaving their lover for another person. I've had it happen too, fortunenately not my girlfriend, but someone else his girlfriend. One night all changed their relationship, while we barely new each other yet, but a spark just lighted the fire, so to speak. It's our human nature I'm afraid, nothing we can do about it, even if we want to.
I consider love to be the most dangerous drug/thing on earth .Love CAN kill you , and has killed many people : those who have commited suicide over losing a loved one , or the mutuality of the feeling .
Not... really. If someone takes a drug and commits suicide while under the influence, it wasn't the drug that killed them. Same applies here.
So , honestly , i don't think there are any solutions , except maybe something in the lines of the movie Equilibrium ( i recommend it for an additional point of view on this matter ) . But that would be to radical in my opinion .
Or Brave New World.... I agree, there aren't any general solutions. Every one probably should find his own solution. Equilibrium isn't to far away from the traditionally monogamous society. It is another way to control people. In Equilibrium and Brave New World they use drugs. In our world they use traditions to control and to prevent strong emotions.
Sometimes it is so much easier to just live in an illusion.
I don't know where you got this from. What makes you think people haven't analysed both possibilities and then come to an answer? Most of the people on tihs forum approach these sort of matters with open-ness (most of them are pro-drug legalization after all) so to act like we are all just living in an illusion because we don't agree with your theory is just plain arrogant.
Micutzul
23-12-2007, 10:46
I don't know where you got this from. What makes you think people haven't analysed both possibilities and then come to an answer? Most of the people on tihs forum approach these sort of matters with open-ness (most of them are pro-drug legalization after all) so to act like we are all just living in an illusion because we don't agree with your theory is just plain arrogant.
I wasn't talking just about the people on this forum . People around here have been particularly open-minded about this subject . I'm talking about people in general , and from my experience in personal conversations and such , they rarely analyse both possibilites . I know many people who don't do it , because they're afraid of what they might come up with , " love is just what it is , and it's beautiful " kind of thinking . I respect them too , it's their right . And i respect those who have analysed both possibilites and then simply have not agreed with my " theory " . I don't think i was plain arrogant , maybe just a little , we all are sometimes .
And where i got that from ? Where did i get the wild idea that people like living in an illusion ? Just look around ( i don't mean this forum , as i said people around here are particularly open-minded ) . Look around in your society ,regarding most subjects . It's human nature after all . If the truth is too harsh , the instinct is to somehow keep away from it , create our own little illusion of an world , where things are better . I think everybody did it and does it to a certain degree .I know i do . Nobody wants to know that everytime you go out in the street , there's the same chance that you'll get stabbed as it was for that poor guy you saw on the news yesterday . Nobody wants to know that everybody you have ever loved will either reject you , or die ( that if you don't die first ) . Nobody wants to know that on a long enough time line everybody's survival rate drops to 0 ( how Tyler Durden'ish of me ) . I know i don't . So most of the time , we lock these inside a little closet in our minds and let ourselves see the world in a much better perspective , in our little personal illusion . It's what keeps us sane .
Regarding love and illusion , look up Stendhal's book " On love " and his theory of Crystallization. It is a theory that i mainly agree with it and i think anybody will find that it has at least a grain of truth .
Micutzul
23-12-2007, 10:55
Not... really. If someone takes a drug and commits suicide while under the influence, it wasn't the drug that killed them. Same applies here.
It depends . If the person was already depressed and suicidal ,and all the drug did was to loosen inhibitions and allow him to kill himself easier , then it could be considered that the drug didn't kill him .
But if the person was perfectly happy before and the drug ( love ) gave him the incentive to kill himself or another person , and he then does it , i think most would agree that the drug is the moral author of the crime .
Example : A normal , moderately happy person trips on a hardcore dose of a heavy dissociative . Strongly dissociated , he can't perceive the fact that he is just about to walk across a highway . He gets hit . He dies . Did he kill himself or did the drug kill him ? Well , the whole debate here is whether he took the drug willingly or not , right ?
So , how do we take love ? Do we do it willingly or not ?
No, the debate about the drug is, was the person responsible enough? If he takes a drug, which clouds his mind so far, he can walk under a car; he never should have entered the street. It isn't interesting, he took the drug willingly or not. We can't ask him anymore. We could determine, whether he took his responsibilities. He shouldn't go on the street in the first place.
The same with love. If you fall in love, you have to deal with it. It can result in happiness or sadness. The result is partially your responsibility and is partially luck.
Micutzul
23-12-2007, 12:30
No, the debate about the drug is, was the person responsible enough? If he takes a drug, which clouds his mind so far, he can walk under a car; he never should have entered the street. It isn't interesting, he took the drug willingly or not. We can't ask him anymore. We could determine, whether he took his responsibilities. He shouldn't go on the street in the first place.
The same with love. If you fall in love, you have to deal with it. It can result in happiness or sadness. The result is partially your responsibility and is partially luck.
Very true , it is a matter - if he was responsible or not . But also consider the case that , in my example , he could have been drugged unknowingly ,without a choice , by another person . So this is why in the case of love i think it is a matter of discussion how much is love chosen and sustained by choice , and how much of it is imposed upon us by our nature/instinct/soul/ higher force , without being given the benefit of a choice .
But then the responsibility lay by someone else. The guy who drugged him, should be punished. It is a severe thing to do.
With falling in love, there is no-one, who can be held responsible then yourself. We can't punish bad luck (or your nature/higher force/whatever).
Love is a "choice" between two people. This makes us depended on the other one. This may be a concious choice, but more often is not. Our bodies chose, who is fit. (So we get healthy children) We only have a veto right and sometimes using this hurts a lot.
People, who start killing, because a love one dumped them, are dangerous. They can start killing with every strong emotion. Most people have internal restraints, which keep them rational enough. It isn't natural to start hitting a person, when extremely enraged. It is a social defect, when one do such thing: Highly problematic when dealing with other species of your race.
It depends . If the person was already depressed and suicidal ,and all the drug did was to loosen inhibitions and allow him to kill himself easier , then it could be considered that the drug didn't kill him .
But if the person was perfectly happy before and the drug ( love ) gave him the incentive to kill himself or another person , and he then does it , i think most would agree that the drug is the moral author of the crime .
Example : A normal , moderately happy person trips on a hardcore dose of a heavy dissociative . Strongly dissociated , he can't perceive the fact that he is just about to walk across a highway . He gets hit . He dies . Did he kill himself or did the drug kill him ? Well , the whole debate here is whether he took the drug willingly or not , right ?
So , how do we take love ? Do we do it willingly or not ?
If a person is walking along, trips (no pun intended) over a pebble, smashes his head on a rock and dies, he did not kill himself, nor can we consider the pebble to have killed him. It was an accident. It's not always possible to attach blame to a death.
Micutzul
24-12-2007, 13:39
If a person is walking along, trips (no pun intended) over a pebble, smashes his head on a rock and dies, he did not kill himself, nor can we consider the pebble to have killed him. It was an accident. It's not always possible to attach blame to a death.
It's not always possible , but i think this is a case where a percentage of the blame can be attributed to factors such as the influence of drugs . We just disagree and ...of course , everything is relative :laugh:
Nature Boy
24-12-2007, 13:57
We can't punish bad luck (or your nature/higher force/whatever).
Love is a "choice" between two people. This makes us depended on the other one. This may be a concious choice, but more often is not. Our bodies chose, who is fit. (So we get healthy children) We only have a veto right and sometimes using this hurts a lot.
A choice between two people? I disagree. What if it's one-sided love? Then the other party has absolutely no hand in it. And what if you fall in love without even wanting to? That's hardly a choice either.
^^^ I agree. I have put it down a bit crappy. Love is not a choice between two people. But to change it in a relationship is a choice. (In my language there is difference between love -houden van- and falling in love (?) -verliefd zijn-. Houden van is used, when people have a longer relationship, but know each other fallacies. Verliefd zijn only as people are in the begin stage of there relation. The blinded by love part, when everything one does is fantastic. )
And where i got that from ? Where did i get the wild idea that people like living in an illusion ? Just look around ( i don't mean this forum , as i said people around here are particularly open-minded ) . Look around in your society ,regarding most subjects . It's human nature after all . If the truth is too harsh , the instinct is to somehow keep away from it , create our own little illusion of an world , where things are better . I think everybody did it and does it to a certain degree .I know i do . Nobody wants to know that everytime you go out in the street , there's the same chance that you'll get stabbed as it was for that poor guy you saw on the news yesterday . Nobody wants to know that everybody you have ever loved will either reject you , or die ( that if you don't die first ) . Nobody wants to know that on a long enough time line everybody's survival rate drops to 0 ( how Tyler Durden'ish of me ) . I know i don't . So most of the time , we lock these inside a little closet in our minds and let ourselves see the world in a much better perspective , in our little personal illusion . It's what keeps us sane .
'Illusion' means to me something that isn't real, or is a faked reality. Why wouldn't the experience people live in subjectively be as real as it gets. If you don't choose to worry or think about something like getting stabbed or anything that is not likely to happen, that isn't illusion in my book. I would call it more living in an illusion if you constantly worried(read concentrated your attention on, perceived, experinced) about things that most of the time wont happen. Dying is also part of the natural experience, and it scares people who won't accept the idea that life is flowing, you should experience it, not try to grab it and achieve something permanent, because there is nothing to grab. When you die, what do you think will happen? How did you wind up in your brain's consciousness in the first place? Everything usually circles in the nature. The same thing will happen, you start living in another complex system's consciousness, be it world with it's people or some brains. There isn't you, the 'you' is only collection of past events, experience of the present or whatever you pay attention to. But there is an experience.
Micutzul
25-12-2007, 12:19
Dying scares everybody , not only those who don't accept the fact that life is flowing . And why wouldn't be the experience in which we live subjectively be real ? This is a different topic and a very elaborate debate , with a very high degree of relativity . But to keep on track , let's consider the subjective experience of thinking that "this love will always last forever" ( something which i think has happened to most people at a certain stage in their lives) . What makes this not real ? The fact that months/years later , the love will die and as such it has not lasted forever .
Personally , i don't think whatever you believe to be true is true , even if you are absolutely convinced of it and it actually becomes your subjective reality . ( take for example people with psychological illness ) . Just because a dude thinks he's Riddick , it doesn't mean he's a cold blooded escaped convict who can see in the dark...
If you are in love and think that it lasts forever, then you are already thinking some other moment of your life than the current. And if you are thinking about love lasting to the distant future, that is an illusion, but if you live in love in the moment, that is something real.
My point was that it isn't living in the illusion if you don't concentrate on those scary things that might or are bound to happen in the future, it is just living in the moment. And if/when those things happen, THEN you go through those sad times, and it is real for that moment. So, there's no illusion if you don't constantly concentrate on the fact that your feelings aren't forever, as nothing is. Concentrating on the present moment isn't an illusion since it's the reality.
Personally , i don't think whatever you believe to be true is true , even if you are absolutely convinced of it and it actually becomes your subjective reality . ( take for example people with psychological illness ) . Just because a dude thinks he's Riddick , it doesn't mean he's a cold blooded escaped convict who can see in the dark...
We were talking about the experience of love being an illusion. Imagining that you posses supernatural powers is a delusion in terms of physical world, which others can verify to be incorrect.
To the original question, yes, love can be seen to be a dangerous and addicting mind-altering drug, if you really strecth the term drug to include other things than chemical substances that alter or affect your mind. But in that case every emotion can be a drug. Every event and perception is a drug. They have certain effect on your mind. I see this to be a terminological question stemming from the similarity of 'natural' emotions and those induced by ingesting substance.
Micutzul
27-12-2007, 19:56
... the old saying goes "it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." One could also argue that love is just an emotion because emotions also affect the mind and body. Emotions can be harmful or dangerous if one doesn't control them. Rule them or they WILL rule swiy.
Unless you're not human or an extremely life-long dedicated buddhist monk , you can't control emotions IMO . And one of the least controlable is love .
And the answer to the old saying .. i'd choose " never to have loved " any time .
Regarding psyche's post , i don't think i ever mentioned "constantly concentrating " on the scary things . I said - accepting the scary things conciously . I was reffering in particular to what i noticed in my personal way of thinking . For example , if i see the news and somebody got shot ..etc.. most of the times i think " that won't happen to me .. bla bla... " . That is evasive thought . It's not accepting the possibility. But maybe that's just how i think .
Regarding psyche's post , i don't think i ever mentioned "constantly concentrating " on the scary things . I said - accepting the scary things conciouslyAccepting things consciously requires concentrating on them. But who is the 'you' that needs to be in control and know the love isn't forever. If you say you are thinking a thought, something that would make a thought something to own and you the owner, you fail to realise that the thought IS you. If you then think that you thought something, who is the one thinking that, it's a just a thought just like the previous one. The only difference between the owner of the thought and the thought itself is time, it's only the same conscious process at different times. There is truth to the saying in someones signature 'to find your mind you have to lose it first'. (So the only you is your brain spontaneously reflecting to the things of the 'outside' world, something that you might define 'not you'.) I wouldn't spend/live my life with the worries of the future but it's everyones personal choice. Accepting or thinking them once through might do some good but you don't have to actively 'accept' them all the time in order to live a better life. When there's no separate you from the experience 'you' are having, why not spend your life 'accepting' positive thoughts instead.
Buddhist monks don't control their emotions. Buddhist monks meditating don't concentrate hard to achieve some sort of further enlightenment, that once you are there it's done and you'll live in bliss forever. Funny thing that I've got the very problem of controlling my emotions so that I'm having very hard time falling in love because I can't let my emotions take control in social situations. It happens because I think it's a problem. Every time I know I should feel something the very classification of the feeling in words and rational thinking of what to answer strips the moment of all feelings. It's like you have to come up with seemingly spontaneous answer, supposing you are feeling this way, and not let other's detect that you don't actually feel the feeling at the moment of you speaking. Now that I've got unusually smart girlfriend with some similarities to me I have started to realize how terribly chained my emotions are. But this isn't anything to brag about since it really makes my life boring and stressful. My doctor thought that I might have asperger's syndrome because my emotions are so controlled. I've build quite a lonely world for myself by following the shadow of myself, the higher conscious thinking in the belief that I'm finding the true myself.
Micutzul
29-12-2007, 11:15
. Funny thing that I've got the very problem of controlling my emotions so that I'm having very hard time falling in love because I can't let my emotions take control in social situations. It happens because I think it's a problem. Every time I know I should feel something the very classification of the feeling in words and rational thinking of what to answer strips the moment of all feelings. It's like you have to come up with seemingly spontaneous answer, supposing you are feeling this way, and not let other's detect that you don't actually feel the feeling at the moment of you speaking. Now that I've got unusually smart girlfriend with some similarities to me I have started to realize how terribly chained my emotions are. But this isn't anything to brag about since it really makes my life boring and stressful. My doctor thought that I might have asperger's syndrome because my emotions are so controlled. I've build quite a lonely world for myself by following the shadow of myself, the higher conscious thinking in the belief that I'm finding the true myself.
I can imagine how it could become a problem but I have the exact opposite problem - difficulty in controlling my emotions and even my thoughts . Extreme difficulty . The most problematic are the very distructive feelings of rage and hate , but the fact that they fluctuate radically within hours is also deeply disturbing . I should probably visit a shrink , but i have entombed myself in the belief that i don't want to be helped . Well , whatever ....You're right , in a way , what I think is me . I am my own thoughts and emotions , unfortunately .
Nature Boy
29-12-2007, 15:25
^^^ I agree. I have put it down a bit crappy. Love is not a choice between two people. But to change it in a relationship is a choice. (In my language there is difference between love -houden van- and falling in love (?) -verliefd zijn-. Houden van is used, when people have a longer relationship, but know each other fallacies. Verliefd zijn only as people are in the begin stage of there relation. The blinded by love part, when everything one does is fantastic. )
That's quite interesting. I might have to start incorporating those terms into everyday speech. :)
Lust pops up, when your body is in love.
Interesting choice of words there, Pino:laugh:
SWIM would say that love is possibly the most euphoric high out there. He remembers sex, spending the night, and waking up next to her, looking at her and feeling like he won the lottery...alas, young, dumb, and etc. as he was, he assumed this happened with every woman and has found out otherwise...
As to the "normal" world's assesment as the "love high" being more noble than a drug high...try this: "Well, maybe love and drugs trip the same neurotransmitters and whatnot, but the difference is that the drug high is ILLUSORY--it lies to you. With love, OTOH, the high is due to the fact that you legitimately doing something decent and worthwhile." A good parallel would be that exercise releases endorphins that create sensations similar to opiates, but the exercise is an EARNED high, because you're doing something "good" for your body. Even open-minded SWIM sometimes sees exercise as a "double bonus."
Micutuzl, what is the alternative to love then? The thought of living (and dying) without anyone to love or to love you is abhorrent to me and many...sometimes, when SWIM's in a introspective mood, he thinks that love, in its many permutations, is the ultimate pursuit of humanity...he'd feel like life without the possility of love to be little more than several decades of metabolism...
Finally, a thought experiment: SWIY fell deeply in love and was dumped in a most harsh and abrupt way. With a mind to retire to whatever drug SWIY thinks would best anesthetise the agony, s/he's approached by someone who says, "Hey, I'll fix you up right...I've got something that--for the next four hours--will make you feel like you did the first time you first slept with your lover and knew how right the two of you were. It's a steal at only $100!" How far do you think love-sick SWIY would go to come up with the Benji?
Sorry, this comes close to home for SWIM: he recently got off seroquel (quetiapine) and the biggest reason he'll never even consider taking it again is that is constrains the emotional range to the point where love is impossible. It filled him with dread that his parents might die and he'd be unable to grieve--and then spend the rest of his life grappling with "You didn't love your parents at the time of their death." (Yes I know the OP was talikng about love of a different nature, but the emotional flattening that prevents familial love would also prevent romantic love).
Today before I read your post, coincidentally I was explaining to someone that the 'longing' I feel is as big as the sky.
It consumes, my every waking moment. I am haunted. Completely besotted, by 'love' that I already 'gave up' because of the damage it was causing me.
'I' had disappeared. Sacrificed my self for love.
So I gave it up, walked away. I did the right thing. I 'sacrificed love' for survival. Denying my self of the one thing I wanted in this world because it was so bad for me.
But made me feel so good.
Is love an addictive drug?
I feel like it when I know the 'dealer' is only a 5 minute walk away from where I live. I live in permanent internal conflict. The one person in the whole world that can take the sense of loss away, can't be trusted with the task.
I work with people with addictions (drug and alcohol). I help them raise their self awareness, and therefore I learn through my own experiences.
I have used every 'trick in the book' to rid myself of the burden of love and have so far failed. Yes I believe 'love', is as addictive, as heroin.
Nature Boy
30-12-2007, 16:14
As to the "normal" world's assesment as the "love high" being more noble than a drug high...try this: "Well, maybe love and drugs trip the same neurotransmitters and whatnot, but the difference is that the drug high is ILLUSORY--it lies to you. With love, OTOH, the high is due to the fact that you legitimately doing something decent and worthwhile." A good parallel would be that exercise releases endorphins that create sensations similar to opiates, but the exercise is an EARNED high, because you're doing something "good" for your body. Even open-minded SWIM sometimes sees exercise as a "double bonus."
Do the ends not justify the means? What's to say a drug high is illusion if essentially it produces the same effect? Although I think love and drugs are completely separate though similar effects, each various psychoactive correlating differently from natural emotions, natural emotions being chemical processes similar or the same as those produced by drugs anyway. And who's to say love is something decent and worthwhile. Yes, it is fulfilling but only on a personal level. Drugs do the same. Love can be shared, drugs can be shared. Certain types of love can be as damaging as certain types of drugs. Real love can be far more shattering than any drug.
Micutzul
30-12-2007, 21:24
I feel like it when I know the 'dealer' is only a 5 minute walk away from where I live. I live in permanent internal conflict. The one person in the whole world that can take the sense of loss away, can't be trusted with the task.
I have used every 'trick in the book' to rid myself of the burden of love and have so far failed. Yes I believe 'love', is as addictive, as heroin.
I am in a quite similar situation . For two and a half years my " dealer " was in the same room with me for 6-7 hours every day , whether i liked it or not . Then ,after shattering pain , i managed to let it go , leaving a big part of myself behind with it . It sent me plummeting in a spiral of alcoholism . After a year or so , drugs . But in the middle of my addiction , i still felt the need for love , i still felt a big hole , nothing could fill it . I succeeded in gathering enough hope for another attempt . I fell in love again , with someone who is 5 minutes away from me . Sufficient to say it ended even worse - pain , humiliation .... . It all went even more downards . Work performance near 0 .Everyday drug use . Fucked up my entire life . I was so close to suicide so many times that i seriously don't want to consider what would have happened if i had a gun in my house . Most likely i wouldn't be writing this post . And it still feels like that . I never trully recovered from love nor from addiction . But while drugs were the means of my demise , i only used them to dull the pain , the pain of loving . I'm sure i could forget all about drugs , if the scars on my soul healed . But now, i know it's impossible .
Now , two a days in a row don't go by , in which i don't have to battle the thought of just putting an end to all of this . How do i manage to stay away from drugs ? I made an oath to myself and others that i would never use drugs again , but how i manage to do it , i couldn't say . Sometimes it just requires "inhuman" willpower and i don't know where i get it from . I am a shadow of who i was before loving . Every moment , i am crumbling inside , every thought makes me weaker . I also promised to myself , i would never love again . I won't go through it again .I now know what it is .No more humiliation . This time , i'll put an end to it before ever loving again.
I know i can't win this battle . Basically , i'm just waiting to see how long i can take it .I know the moment will come when i'll just crack .I don't want to be melodramatic , i just want to show those of you who maybe were luckier that love can break you so much that you'll never put the tiny pieces back together .This isn't a cry for help . I don't want to be helped . I don't want compassion or pity. This is life , and it's a bitch.
So , maybe my opinion is not objective ( lol...maybe ? ) . I tried to reason as objectively and rationally as possible .But my experience leaves it's mark on my every thought . It's inevitable .
Regarding exercise , it is addictive (tested on laboratory rats , they self-exhaust themselves to death ) , it creates a chemical pleasant feeling , but it doesn't damage you. If taken to extremes it can harm you , but i consider love to have more negative side effects.
Nature boy is right and i think at least on this we can all agree. Love can be more shattering than any drug.
i think that love is the least damaging drug of all, but of course just like ANYTHING in the world, has great potential for abuse, and one could always waste time/money/thoughts/etc on something that isnt ideal.
live love always<3
one of the things that holds us closest to 'God, Universal Energy, Self, Belonging' is love. No wonder when you can no longer feel it, the impact is deep.
The foundations are shaken.
stoneinfocus
06-01-2008, 22:57
Do the ends not justify the means? What's to say a drug high is illusion if essentially it produces the same effect? Although I think love and drugs are completely separate though similar effects, each various psychoactive correlating differently from natural emotions, natural emotions being chemical processes similar or the same as those produced by drugs anyway. And who's to say love is something decent and worthwhile. Yes, it is fulfilling but only on a personal level. Drugs do the same. Love can be shared, drugs can be shared. Certain types of love can be as damaging as certain types of drugs. Real love can be far more shattering than any drug.
Drugs can be calulated, predicted, they deliver what you expected, love is much "different" in this way.
NaturalWizard
12-01-2008, 00:28
Swim thinks that love is an exceptional high that comes at a cost. You have to pay in what you get out.
Drugs can be calulated, predicted, they deliver what you expected, love is much "different" in this way.
love is the 'high' that comes for free the only 'cost' being you don't necessarily get out, what you put in! Maybe the one real difference between conditional and unconditional love is expectation.
Micutzul
17-01-2008, 18:01
Drugs can be calulated, predicted, they deliver what you expected, love is much "different" in this way.
Hmm , i mostly disagree. Some drugs are quite direct , that's true . But saying that they can be calculated is an exaggeration in my opinion . All that we know of drug effects is from personal experience , the experience of others and experimental studies . There is no ecuation in which you can put a certain amount and type of drug and then calculate the result .The same with love , what we know of it is from experience , other's or ours. There are scientists who study the relationship between drugs and humans and in my opinion it's as ambiguos as psychologists and psychiatrists studying the relationship between love and humans.
You can predict the results of both love and drugs , but your prediction will be off by at least 1% (figurately ) every single time . I think that if your pet ever used drugs , you'll agree that every experience had at least a little something in it , which your pet did not expect. The same with love , only that the random , chaotic part is much more pronounced .
Nature Boy
17-01-2008, 18:56
^^^
Exactly. The psychoanalysis of drug use and what we define as love are both greatly complicated and we've only figured out the very basics of what can be known, or assumed, when it comes to the intricate understanding of individual reactions. That figurative 1% inaccuracy is only the closest figure one can aspire to finding and even that is extremely distant in terms of what we now know.
augentier
17-01-2008, 20:39
I tend to feel very sorry for those who try to explain and "figure out" emotions with cold, scientific rationale. What a bleak, uninteresting existance.
cyferman
10-02-2008, 02:15
I think what some people have failed to touch on so far that love is an emotion (or a combination of emotions) just like all other feelings we as humans have.
When we start to classify emotions as drugs which alter our state of conciousness it becomes obvious that at any point in time we are constantly under the influence of something, changing the way we would react to particular situations.
You would then conclude that all emotions have the power to be deteramental both psychologically and physically in the ways already stated, it is a wonder why our govournments havent banned the use of our mind all together... some people think they are trying to do that already :P
darkglobe
11-02-2008, 22:17
What an interesting thread. Like Natureboy's little description of conditional love. That actually helps me atm, too.
Love is, in a way, psychologically addictive isn't it.
You would then conclude that all emotions have the power to be deteramental both psychologically and physically in the ways already stated, it is a wonder why our govournments havent banned the use of our mind all together... some people think they are trying to do that already :P
Let's just hope the future never looks like the scenario pictured in this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/) film. Feelings and emotions are banned and people vaccinated against them. People avoiding those vaccinations are persecuted as are today those who choose to intentionally induce emotions by chemical means.
cyferman
12-02-2008, 14:23
Yeah that would truly suck.. anyway im quite sure the world wont let it be converted to something like that any time soon. Always good to have a healthy observations about tht kinda stuff aswell tho.
Kymistry
14-02-2008, 00:01
Hell Yeah. Love is the worst dope in the world. Stay far far away.
Hell Yeah. Love is the worst dope in the world. Stay far far away.
And if you're already hooked?
Codehead
17-02-2008, 10:12
Love is best drug <3
If anything, I consider love to be more akin to a mental illness rather than a drug. I don't mean that in a bad way necessarily
notts.pirate
28-03-2008, 17:42
If anything, I consider love to be more akin to a mental illness rather than a drug. I don't mean that in a bad way necessarily
me aswell
[éS]Infinite
30-03-2008, 21:53
SWIM would say that it isn't so much love being an addictive "drug", but one becoming dependent on a person whom they love. SWIM has seen it happen to many friends, and has even experienced it first hand, and must say that the "withdrawal" was most terrible.
It is a difficult thing to avoid, and shares many similarities with drugs. There is a reward response involved (typically from sex and how that person makes you feel about yourself and your life), however once dependence takes place and that feeling is no longer sufficient, the love usually ends and is followed by a withdrawal (a feeling of worthlessness and hopelessness).
One must keep such things in mind at all times during a relationship, and maintain self control over how much pleasure one receives in order to avoid such withdrawals. At least this is how SWIM perceives it.
Pretend_you_dont_see_Her
04-04-2008, 14:24
"Love" is a pain in the ass. End of.