How does swiy deal with depression?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swims love for mind altering substances came out of the need to escape hurtful things and sorrow.Ofcourse swim can not always afford to escape in this way.Swim wonders how other people deal with hurtful things and being depressed without the use of chemicals?Maybe swim can find the magic solution he has been looking for for so long with the help of other people on df?Swim certainly hopes!

[Zaprenz]

Taking pyschoactive drugs for escapism can often lead to problems. :s

It's not always the case and it is possible some drugs can effectively "kick start" someone out of a depressed period. It's equally possible however they will mask the symptoms of depression and pain when under the influence and have the depression and pain return far worse during the come down or whilst not under the influence.

Certainly this is more true with addictive/habit forming drugs, having depression and being unhappy will increases ones chance of getting in to problematic use with them.


There is always non-drug solutions which even if limited in efficacy certainly wont hurt: Good diet, excersize, meditation :) One should also not rule out proper medical or professional advise.


This is only SWIMs advice & opinion but SWIM would suggest the magic bullet single solution to all problems doesn't (yet) exist and if for whatever reason SWIY thinks they have stumbled upon it in the future - think very hard about whether it really is the solution. Speaking from experience pride or contentment very often does come before a fall. :eek:

[SuprSonik]

SWIM's always had problems with depression, and he normally gets around it by using drugs. But aside from drugs, SWIM watches movies (especially ones that he's seen before and loved), plays video games, and looks at crap online. SWIM is too depressed to want to hang out with anyone or do anything else.

Right now is especially hard for SWIM, because in the past he used drugs just as a means to escape depression and to relax. Over time he began to use them regularly to enhance his daily life, and now that classes are out and SWIM has a lot of time on his hands, he's finding himself depressed again, as usual. But now, SWIM's tolerance for his favorite drugs is much higher than it used to be and it seems the only way to deal with the depression is to take more and more, which will lead to money problems and addiction. It makes SWIM even more depressed when he thinks about that...

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim finds it impossible to escape.It is like a storm of depression and swim is trapped in the open with no shelter.It only gets worse as the years go on.Swim regrets suboxone maintenance sort of suboxone doesn't take away lifes pain like methadone or oxycontin.It is nice not to have to spend huge amounts of money not to get sick but on a whole suboxone is not that enjoyable.Swim wishes he could fight depression non chemically but he just can't.

[SuprSonik]

Swim finds it impossible to escape.It is like a storm of depression and swim is trapped in the open with no shelter.It only gets worse as the years go on.Swim regrets suboxone maintenance sort of suboxone doesn't take away lifes pain like methadone or oxycontin.It is nice not to have to spend huge amounts of money not to get sick but on a whole suboxone is not that enjoyable.Swim wishes he could fight depression non chemically but he just can't.

SWIM enjoys opioids very much, but has been able to keep his use under control so far. He finds himself getting dangerously close at times to a serious addiction however, and fears that it's almost certain he will end up a junky with enough time. SWIM also has a bad habit of drinking too much and using too many benzodiazepines. Without them SWIM constantly feels like just killing himself, as it seems there's no other permanent solution to dealing with depression.

SWIM was happy when he first started using drugs, as finally there was a solution. But now, it just seems like he's postponing an inevitable breakdown. SWIM can take higher doses and different drugs, but that will only lead to worse places. SWIM would rather be happy, or at least content, and live a short life than be miserable and live a long life, though. It's sad that those seem to be the only 2 choices SWIM has.

[sweetsugar]

swiss gets depression after a drug binge or after addiction, she trys to stay god damn positve, eat well, even if having to be forcing oneself, and doing the things that would normaly is swim wasnt feeling low, swiss loves music of all kinds, makes music, anmd it just lifts her soul. swiss cant comment on takeing drugs to escape from depression of any kind. swiss hopes swiy gets through this, all the best

[bloot]

SWIM has had, to say the minimum, depression for the last five years. Up until now he hasn't really tried to deal with these problems with ways other than chemicals.. Although he still does take anti-depressants/anti-psychotics/nootropics. It seems that his depression just seems to worsen everyday, but lately it has seemed to get significantly better. SWIM has used a most likely not too healthy technique of holding in all emotions ( as in not letting anyone know how he feels ) until they seem to go away. Things usually seem to get worse once he starts telling others about the way he feels, because others usually over react to the thoughts that he explains he is having. None of these thoughts are really out of the ordinary to him.. Seeing he has been dealing with them since he can remember. He really just tries to live day to day, this is the only thing that really helps. And for the past couple of weeks he has been doing great amounts of exercise to help, and it really does.

[Alicia]

swia has a life and real friends and people who care about her and activities so she is not in these states... despite her drug use.

anti-depressants are NOT the way forward all the time. friends are a good thing, so is a goal in life.

[Fantasian]

Look at the original reason to why the depression exists, the answer for SWIF isnt ever escape or avoidance, it's changing ones state of being or life so that there is nothing to depress oneself. That said life is full of peaks and troughs and in that case it's like Alicia said, good friends, and fun things in life, an enjoyable job, fun hobbies, sport. Choose life ;)

[ThirdEyeFloond]

SWIM has been depressed on and off for the last ten years or so of his life. He has selfmedicated many drugs to ease, supress and, in retrospect, prolong and worsen this condition. Cannabis, GHB, Alcohol, heroin and ketamine have all been trialed by SWIM for their escapistic qualities. They helped him during some rough times and still do occationaly but daily use tended to make things worse in the long run. And as time went by he started feeling that this wasn't the solution, as he remembered feeling shitty earlier on but not as shitty as now. He reached a low point (partially spawned by a Kundalini awakening which put SWIM in a existential/spiritual crisis) and decided it was finally time to seek professional help. So he wen't to his doctor and was put on antidepressants, he tried a couple but none of them seemed to help rather the opposite, he has seen them have some positive effects on friends of SWIM when they've been at an all low, but in the long run they don't change the situation much. Also the side effects where too plentyful for SWIM so he dropped antidepressants and took a whole other approach. SWIM had had a ketamine abuse up untill recently and one of the last insights he had while the K-hole was still within reach, was that yoga and meditation was the way forward. He started a daily yoga schedule, in the beginning it was far from daily more like weekly, but in time he got the energy and fancy to do it everyday. It starts feeling rewarding already after a few days of pracsis and sometimes a stretch even loosens up some emotional garbish from some knot in ones body, this holistic kind of healing may seem farfetched for SWIY so SWIM would suggest trying it out just for the sake of the exercise. Excersise is gold when depressed, and just a daily 20-30 min. walk can work wonders. Yoga and excersise will aid in general healthiness and wellbeing which is a essential foundation for curing depression.

SWIM realized that trying to run from his problems didn't help, no matter how deep he hid in some drughaze the problems would still be there when he returned to the surface, and trying to solve them all seemed an impossible task. But he found inspiration in an easily read book by Chögyam Trungpa called Meditation in Action that made him start to accept his self with all its flaws. I'll quote a few passages here. Even when stripped of the symbolism and semireligous retoric which may be too much for SWIYs it still contains some good sound advice IMHO, swap Awakening with elevating a depressed state and so on and it could be of some use. It has been for SWIM atleast.


It is said, I think in the Lankavatara Sutra, that unskilled farmers throw away their rubbish and buy manure from other farmers, but those who are skilled go on collecting their own rubbish, in spite of the bad smell and the unclean work, and when it is ready to be used they spread it on their land, and out of this they grow their crops. That is the skilled way. In exactly the same way, the Buddha says, those who are unskilled will divide clean from unclean and will try to throw away samsara and search for nirvana, but those who are skilled boddhisatvas will not throw away desires and the passions and so on, but will first gather them together. That is to say, one should first recognize and acknowledge them, and study them and bring them to realization. So the skilled boddhisatva will acknowledge and accept all these negative things. And this time he knows that he has all these terrible things in him, and although it is very difficult and unhygienic, as it were, to work on, that is the only way to start. And then he will scatter them on the field of bodhi. Having studied all these concepts and negative things, when the time is right he does not keep them anymore, but scatters them and uses them as manure. So out of these unclean things comes the birth of the seed which is realization. This is how one has to give birth. And the very idea that concepts are bad, and such-and-such a thing is bad, divides the whole thing, with the result that you are not left with anything at all to deal with. And it that case you either have to be completely perfect, or else battle through all these things and try to knock them all out. But when you have this hostile attitude and try to suppress things, then each time you knock one thing out another springs up in its place, and when you attack that one, another comes up from somewhere else. There is this continual trick of the ego, so that when you try to disentangle one part of the knot, you pull on the string and only make it tighter somewhere else, so you are continually trapped in it. Therefore the thing is not to battle anymore, not to try and sort out the bad things and only achive good, but respect them and acknowledge them. So theory and concepts are very good like wonderful manure.

[...]So comming back to the subject of concepts, which is a very important example, the idea behind this is to develope a positive outlook and to recognize your great wealth...One has a tendency to try and abandon [conceps and ideas] or throw them away. But one should cultivate them...since you already have enough wealth, just go through it. Just as a person who wants to buy something first has to check and see how much money he has...In this way you gain a complete understanding of what you are, and that is more important than continuously creating...The point of realization is not to try and understand only the awakened state and pretend not to understand the other side, because that becomes a way of cheating oneself. You see, you are your own best friend, your own closest frined, you are the best company for yourself. One know one's own weaknesses and inconsistency, one knows how much wrong one has done, one knows it all in detail, so it doesn't help to try and pretend you don't know it, or to try not to think of that side and only think of the good side; that would mean that one was still storing one's rubbish. [And] you would not have enough manure to raise a crop from this wonderful field of bodhi. So you shold go through and study even right back to your childhood...and try to understand [it]...One must also examine fear and expectation. If there is fear of death, one examines that; if one fears old age, one examines that. If one feel uneasy about a certain ugliness in oneself, or a certain disability or physical weakness of any kind, one examines them as well. And one should also examine one's mental image of oneself, and anything one may feel bad about. It is very painful in the beginning - as Brahma showed by breaking down - when you first go through it and see it. But this is the only way to do it. Sometimes one touches on a very painful spot where one is almost too shy to look into it, but somehow one still has to go through it. And by going into it one finally achieves a real command of oneself, one gains a thorough knowledge of oneself for the first time.

[Jacco]

Swim deals with mild depression/OCD. Right now he takes heroic doses of caffeine (a pot a day or so), which makes him a "mean lean problem-solving machine" at school and induces euphoria. He (perhaps sadly) tends to not view emotions as anything special, just neurochemical processes that can be manipulated at will. He knows he's just avoiding a problem, but it's easier to think that way. </emo>

Swim has been looking into dramamine as a potential SSRI in low doses (75mg perhaps, with caffeine to offset drowsiness). He also wants to get fluoxetine or bupropion off of the internet, but can't. Is swim clinically depressed, or just a junkie? We may never know.

[Pino]

Things swim suggest: Try to find a goal in life. Find a philosophy. Talk or find friends to talk too. Just talk to a strange everyday and talk about the weather or something more boring. Write poetry and post the stuff. Keep a dairy and leave it in the bus. Write blogs. Read lots of books. Go out. Do sports. Say everyday to your mirror image, you love the person you see. Say you are beautiful. Masturbate whenever you want, wherever you want. Have lots of sex. Explore your fantasy. Find someone. Buy presents for others or yourself. Buy new clothes, don't restrict oneself herein. Over the top is fine. Buy what one want. Cook good and nice meals. Go outside (especially on rainy days) and just walk and think and when one is frozen go back home and drink a nice cup of hot chocolate milk. Go outside, when it lightens, and listen to grandiose music -Any Requiem, Carmina Burana, anything Wagner- and imagine you can throw lighting. Hold that thought and get lost in the moment. Practice on lucid dreaming. Just disappear for a week, go to another country hitch-hiking. Make a big fire with friends. Start a exciting project -build a railgun, whatever-. Tell someone you really love him or her. Go climb the Kilimanjaro.

Do something strange every day. Do something exciting once in a while. Do something, that is the bottom line and do something unexpected ;) Find a partner in "crime". Try to get out of your normal pattern, maybe you will be able to view things in a different perspective.

This works for swim. He just has to do something. Something new. Something different. Something to break his patterns, which have driven him to his depressive state.

[SuprSonik]

SWIM has had, to say the minimum, depression for the last five years. Up until now he hasn't really tried to deal with these problems with ways other than chemicals.. Although he still does take anti-depressants/anti-psychotics/nootropics. It seems that his depression just seems to worsen everyday, but lately it has seemed to get significantly better. SWIM has used a most likely not too healthy technique of holding in all emotions ( as in not letting anyone know how he feels ) until they seem to go away. Things usually seem to get worse once he starts telling others about the way he feels, because others usually over react to the thoughts that he explains he is having. None of these thoughts are really out of the ordinary to him.. Seeing he has been dealing with them since he can remember. He really just tries to live day to day, this is the only thing that really helps. And for the past couple of weeks he has been doing great amounts of exercise to help, and it really does.

SWIM used to keep all his problems to himself, but just in the past month he's told 2 people that he considers good friends. He probably wouldn't have done it had he been sober, but his recent habit of combining alcohol, weed, and benzos will bring out the truth, make you want to think and talk about it, and not even think about how it will affect you the next day.

Surprisingly, he managed to have a good discussion with both people that didn't involve the overreacting that one typically sees from people after you tell them your outlook on life. SWIM's only told 2 people before this in his entire lifetime, and it made him never want to speak of it again to anyone. Their constant attempts to cheer you up and change your outlook on life by spewing bullshit was so tiring. However, SWIM thinks that telling people who you really trust can be helpful, as long as they are the type who are willing to discuss things without overreacting. It also definitely helps if drugs are involved with both (or all) people involved in the discussion.

Don't give up on talking to close friends about things; as SWIM said, it really did make SWIM feel better in the end. Better than he felt going into the conversation, anyway.

Swim deals with mild depression/OCD. Right now he takes heroic doses of caffeine (a pot a day or so), which makes him a "mean lean problem-solving machine" at school and induces euphoria. He (perhaps sadly) tends to not view emotions as anything special, just neurochemical processes that can be manipulated at will. He knows he's just avoiding a problem, but it's easier to think that way. </emo>

Swim has been looking into dramamine as a potential SSRI in low doses (75mg perhaps, with caffeine to offset drowsiness). He also wants to get fluoxetine or bupropion off of the internet, but can't. Is swim clinically depressed, or just a junkie? We may never know.

SWIM would say that SWIY is far from a junky if he's looking into caffeine and dramamine for answers. SWIM's personal opinion is that SSRIs aren't worth a thing in the long run, and they didn't do much for SWIM in the short term either. SWIM says the best answer to depression is a bowl of fine weed. Goes well mixed with a movie, or a discussion with a friend.

[cra$h]

get an ounce of regular salvia leaves. they'll be around 5x. they go for xxxx usd's, then get some j-wraps, and smoke them like cigarettes. I've found that I appreciate life and how perfectly it works. alcohol can do the same, but it's a 50/50 chance of making things better or worse

Please do not discuss prices, you may instead enter them in the drug price calculator (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/../calculator/submitprice.php)

[Lethargy]

SWIM doesn't get depressed.
I used to suffer from chronic depression though, and worked my way through it.

I've found a few things help, and the key here involves trying them out for a significant amount of time (5 days a week for a month) before you decide they do or do not work.

Exercise, at least a half an hour a day of aerobic exercise, 1 hour or more will obviously work better. I've found literature saying that the endorphins which give a "runner's high" only come after a few hours of exercise, but even 15 minutes a day will help immensely.

Meditation, at least 5 minutes a day, just sit and focus on your breathing, or a mantra, or a mandala or candle. Clear your mind of all thoughts, and don't worry, it will not happen very often at first. Focus on your one thing, and not the millions of other thoughts that run through your head. Google meditation methods and find one that sounds good to you. This will help immensely but takes time for results. 15 minutes to half an hour a day will work much better, but for the first month or two most people can barely clear their mind for 5 minutes much less half an hour.

Laugh. Yes, laugh. Look yourself in the mirror and force yourself to laugh long and hard every day. It may sound weird, and trust me it feels odd at first, but after a while you will notice that laughter and smiling comes easier in your day to day life if you "practice laugh" each day. Plus some evidence exists that laughter releases those wonderful endorphins that exercise does.

Three simple steps, they ought to work, even if they don't cure depression they will certainly improve your quality of life. Just remember, trying it once will do little to nothing, trying it twice, same thing. Do it at least 5 days a week for at least a month before you try and judge results.

[bloot]

get an ounce of regular salvia leaves. they'll be around 5x. they go for XXXXusd's, then get some j-wraps, and smoke them like cigarettes. I've found that I appreciate life and how perfectly it works. alcohol can do the same, but it's a 50/50 chance of making things better or worse
Price discussion is not allowed. This is to keep from possible transactions via DF. Please give the rules a read.

[infekt]

get an ounce of regular salvia leaves. they'll be around 5x. they go for xxxx usd's, then get some j-wraps, and smoke them like cigarettes. I've found that I appreciate life and how perfectly it works. alcohol can do the same, but it's a 50/50 chance of making things better or worse

Please do not discuss prices, you may instead enter them in the drug price calculator (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/../calculator/submitprice.php)

Now I've heard of this being an effective way to alleviate depression, not just from you, I've read a case study following a woman who had sucessfull results with chewing fresh salvia leaves for awhile....seems interesting...

[grandbaby]

SWIM took Wellbutrin (bupropion) for smoking cessation and found out something he was very surprised by — that the bupropion subtly but definitely alleviated a longstanding depression as well as aiding in breaking his cigarette addiction. In the past, whenever he quit smoking, he was seized in the jaws of the black dogs, a condition which he chalked up to missing his old habit. Having analyzed it from the other end of the telescope, it appears that the reverse was true: that he smoked cigarettes in order to stave off depression.

That's the long answer. The short answer, then, is "300 mg bupropion daily."

The 'prop is an interesting little compound. It's a Norepinephrine and Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor, which basically means that it increases bioavailability of those two neurotransmitters. Based on SWIM's observations of his traits (risk-taking and novelty-seeking behaviour, susceptibility to addiction to video games and the internet, general restlessness and dissatisfaction) pre- and post-bupropion, he is ready to come to a self-diagnosis of a congenital dopamine imbalance, which the 'prop seems to have ameliorated. He feels as though he has been given a new lease on life ... BUT he has heard anecdotal evidence of individuals having bad reactions to bupropion. He suspects that it works, and works well, for those with dopamine troubles but that it is likely to make irritable those who have no such thing (such as depression-sufferers with serotonin troubles, say — or those addicted to cigarettes whose addiction has nothing to do with a dopamine deficiency — or the depressed whose depression has a truly psychological, as opposed to neurochemical, cause). YMMV.

[Euphoric]

Some advice for those who are depressed especially if they're bored or need to try something new: VOLUNTEER

It can add great new meaning to your life and make you feel very appreciated. Help the poor, seniors or whatever you're passionate about. Offer a neighbour a helping hand. If you're feeling bold and have the time and money, volunteer in a new country! There are tonnes of options. It's incredible how much a senior you spend half an hour with, chatting or playing a game will appreciate your company. And I bet you will enjoy helping others too. Try it out for a bit. For an inspiring read about volunteering and giving more to others I recommend From me to We by Marc and Craig Kielburger.

[doggy_hat]

SWIM feels depressed everyday. He doesn't use drugs to escape, but only because he has no friends. He spends his days alone in his room staring at the ceiling crying. He feels there is no hope, and whenever he thinks about how great is life is and how he doesn't appreciate things enough, and how people in worse situations are perfectly happy it just makes him feel worse. He feels likes it's a downward spiral, and knows that there is no hope for a better tomorrow. Everything makes him sad, even little things like drinking coffee makes him cry just because it reminds him of when he used to drink coffee during better days. SWIM knows the root of all his depression but there is no way to fix it and for quite some time there never will be. Sometimes SWIM thinks of ending his misery, but there is always a little voice inside of him that says to wait it and better days will come. SWIM is starting to doubt the existence of a better day.

[SuprSonik]

SWIM feels depressed everyday. He doesn't use drugs to escape, but only because he has no friends. He spends his days alone in his room staring at the ceiling crying. He feels there is no hope, and whenever he thinks about how great is life is and how he doesn't appreciate things enough, and how people in worse situations are perfectly happy it just makes him feel worse. He feels likes it's a downward spiral, and knows that there is no hope for a better tomorrow. Everything makes him sad, even little things like drinking coffee makes him cry just because it reminds him of when he used to drink coffee during better days. SWIM knows the root of all his depression but there is no way to fix it and for quite some time there never will be. Sometimes SWIM thinks of ending his misery, but there is always a little voice inside of him that says to wait it and better days will come. SWIM is starting to doubt the existence of a better day.

SWIM feels much the same way, especially lately. He is constantly being reminded that it could be much worse, but that just makes him even more sad because he feels guilty for being so depressed all the time. SWIM has come to the conclusion that the roots of his depression are so deeply embedded into his head that it's impossible to ever dig them out. SWIM wishes he could offer encouraging words right now, but he's been feeling his depression grow even deeper lately. SWIM doesn't think he'll ever be able to crawl out of the "downward spiral," so he's been wondering lately whether it's even worth trying to hold on at all.

[Euphoric]

To the above two posts: time can be a great healer. SWIM is unfamiliar with the history of depression for the two above, but SWIM's depressions tend to wax and wane, sometimes feeling like they will not end and that things cannot get better. But they do. Can SWIY think of times when they've felt similar, though perhaps not quite as low as they do now when they have recovered, no matter how fleetingly?

SWIM suggests to let go of guilt for feeling the way one does. That is a viscious circle. Try to accept the way SWIY feels. If there is an issue to be resolved, try to do so. If it cannot be fixed, try to let it go and find enjoyment despite it. If SWIY has read up on battling depression not only here but elsewhere and feels that they are making no progress, perhaps a visit to a doctor is necessary.

Don't forget there's always 1-800-SUICIDE

[~lostgurl~]

I think the reason there is so much teen suicide is because it is in the teen years where one usually suffers their first bout of depression, this can happen anytime in life but for many the first time is during their teen years.

I had my first bout of depression at 18 and I honestly could not see any happiness in my future whatsoever, and it wasn't that I wished something were different, I had everything but I wasn't happy. As in the 2 posts above, I felt extreme guilt for even being depressed when so many had actual reasons to be depressed. Guilt makes depression 10X worse.

I was 100% sure that I would never feel happy again - 100%! People would tell me things would get better but I didn't believe them cause I knew for me they wouldn't. But I held on anyway and guess what? Things did get better. The next time I felt this low was when I was 20 and although in many ways this depression felt worse, at least I had the knowledge in the back of my mind that it would get better even if I felt it wouldn't. This difference was what kept me going, those going through depression for the first time just don't believe it when people tell them this.

doggy hat and suprsonic, have you guys tried antidepressants? They really do work for some and if they don't work for you try something else. It is a chemical imbalance in your brain that you may be unable to correct without medication. don't give up hope, because seriously things will get better in time but sometimes you need to help yourself if you want help, and this can be a very difficult thing to do when you believe 100% that you can't be helped.

Hold on, stay strong and fight the black dog, you are worth it and I'm sure your family and friends think you are worth it too, even if they don't show it.

[SuprSonik]

To the above two posts: time can be a great healer. SWIM is unfamiliar with the history of depression for the two above, but SWIM's depressions tend to wax and wane, sometimes feeling like they will not end and that things cannot get better. But they do. Can SWIY think of times when they've felt similar, though perhaps not quite as low as they do now when they have recovered, no matter how fleetingly?

SWIM suggests to let go of guilt for feeling the way one does. That is a viscious circle. Try to accept the way SWIY feels. If there is an issue to be resolved, try to do so. If it cannot be fixed, try to let it go and find enjoyment despite it. If SWIY has read up on battling depression not only here but elsewhere and feels that they are making no progress, perhaps a visit to a doctor is necessary.

Don't forget there's always 1-800-SUICIDE

That's the thing about SWIM's depression, it never lets up. He's been depressed for a long time; at least 8 or 9 years, and SWIM can see signs of it when looking back even further. At times it can be less intense, such as when using drugs or being with a friend that he hasn't seen in a while, but it still lingers even then. After that, SWIM's depression seems to rebound and it gets even worse, because if SWIM is still depressed while doing the things he enjoys and being with people that he cares about, he knows it's never going to go away. When SWIM isolates himself from people to avoid his rebound depression, he starts to get lonely and depressed for different reasons. SWIM thinks it's not so much a reason or a thing (although some things can certainly make it worse) that makes him depressed, but that he was just born this way. Depression affects many people in his immediate family, and doctor visits never seem to do much for any of them. SWIM has pretty much lost hope, SWIM has been trying to avoid triggers which might make his depression even worse, but he can't do that forever.

doggy hat and suprsonic, have you guys tried antidepressants? They really do work for some and if they don't work for you try something else. It is a chemical imbalance in your brain that you may be unable to correct without medication. don't give up hope, because seriously things will get better in time but sometimes you need to help yourself if you want help, and this can be a very difficult thing to do when you believe 100% that you can't be helped.

Hold on, stay strong and fight the black dog, you are worth it and I'm sure your family and friends think you are worth it too, even if they don't show it.

SWIM has tried several anti-depressants (prescribed and not prescribed), and has been somewhat vocal about his disappointment with SSRIs on these forums. SWIM has given other anti-depressant drugs a try as well, such as amphetamine (in therapeutic doses), but those are just temporary solutions at best, and depression always seems to come back 10-fold unless he continually increases dosages. SWIM has very bad insomnia as well, and using amphetamine or other uppers required him to use benzodiazepines and other downers to get to sleep. There are constant contradictions with anything he tries which makes it impractical for use as an anti-depressant.

[doggy_hat]

I think the reason there is so much teen suicide is because it is in the teen years where one usually suffers their first bout of depression, this can happen anytime in life but for many the first time is during their teen years.

I had my first bout of depression at 18 and I honestly could not see any happiness in my future whatsoever, and it wasn't that I wished something were different, I had everything but I wasn't happy. As in the 2 posts above, I felt extreme guilt for even being depressed when so many had actual reasons to be depressed. Guilt makes depression 10X worse.

I was 100% sure that I would never feel happy again - 100%! People would tell me things would get better but I didn't believe them cause I knew for me they wouldn't. But I held on anyway and guess what? Things did get better. The next time I felt this low was when I was 20 and although in many ways this depression felt worse, at least I had the knowledge in the back of my mind that it would get better even if I felt it wouldn't. This difference was what kept me going, those going through depression for the first time just don't believe it when people tell them this.

doggy hat and suprsonic, have you guys tried antidepressants? They really do work for some and if they don't work for you try something else. It is a chemical imbalance in your brain that you may be unable to correct without medication. don't give up hope, because seriously things will get better in time but sometimes you need to help yourself if you want help, and this can be a very difficult thing to do when you believe 100% that you can't be helped.

Hold on, stay strong and fight the black dog, you are worth it and I'm sure your family and friends think you are worth it too, even if they don't show it.

SWIM has had problems with depression before, when he was a child. in fact he almost successfully committed suicide when he was 11(He hanged himself with a lamp, and to secure the lamp he threw it over a door and closed the door. Sometime after he lost consciousness his weight pulled the door open. He dropped and regain consciousness, and barely survived.) The root of all of SWIMs depression was/is social isolation. When SWIM started going to school, he remembered always trying hard to conform during kindergarten and 1st grade, but was constantly rejected. He eventually decided that even if they would accept him, he would rather be himself than conform to have friends, and he grew to hate the kids at school more and more over the years. SWIM never had a friend until the 8th Grade, when all of his depression was alleviated and he finally knew what happiness was. he is know in 10th grade and has recently moved in October 2007. When he first heard the news he was moving he was outraged, and very sad. But then viewed it as a good experience, because he would be able to meet new people, see new places etc. and thought of it as a kind of adventure and became optimistic. However when he actually moved. He become extremely homesick and hates everyone he meets. He wasn't expecting the transition to be difficult because the move was of relatively small distance(about 60Miles). However he now lives on a country road, down the street from a corn farm in a town with a population 1/8 the size of the city he lived in, and the average income is also about 4X that of his old city. He hates everyone at school, everyone is just different from the people he used to hangout out with, and can't find anyone that he can get along with(which is strange because SWIM used to enjoy going to parties and used to get along with everyone he talked to, regardless of what kind of person they were.) It's like elementary school all over again. SWIM now just spends every single day alone with nothing to do, and can't find joy in anything. amongst the hobbies SWIM has dropped since moving includes Guitar, Drums, Lyric Writing, Drawing, Reading, and Cooking(every respectable stoner loves to cook!) SWIM is just waiting for the day he can leave and go back to his old friends.

SWIM has tried Antidepressants, normally SWIM would be very hesitant to take prescription drugs because he hates how there is a medication for everything, and feels like people over medicate everything. and he also feels that they are a forms of mind control by the government. However SWIM was willing to try anything. They do absolutely nothing except for negative side affects(SWIM gave them about a month). So SWIM just pretends to take his pills and spits them out when his parents aren't looking.

[podge]

There's so many people talking about needing drugs to alleviate their depression .... maybe that was the initial reason and logic. But at this stage i dont think its stupid of me to say perhaps drugs are now maintaining or aggrevating yer depression.

Quit all chemicals for a month and then see how you feel....if suicide is on your mind then what have you go to lose ?

[Euphoric]

However when he actually moved. He become extremely homesick and hates everyone he meets. He wasn't expecting the transition to be difficult because the move was of relatively small distance(about 60Miles). However he now lives on a country road, down the street from a corn farm in a town with a population 1/8 the size of the city he lived in, and the average income is also about 4X that of his old city. He hates everyone at school, everyone is just different from the people he used to hangout out with, and can't find anyone that he can get along with(which is strange because SWIM used to enjoy going to parties and used to get along with everyone he talked to, regardless of what kind of person they were.) It's like elementary school all over again. SWIM now just spends every single day alone with nothing to do, and can't find joy in anything.



SWIM had a very similar moving experience in regards to city/town size, moving to a farm road and people being much richer around the new house. However SWIM was in grade 6. Don't know how many people are in SWIY's school, but I would be surprised if SWIY can't find one person who's company SWIY enjoys. If SWIY likes a certain type of music, are there concerts of that sort in the area? If SWIY plays music, put up an ad in the local music store to start a band, or if there isn't one, maybe up in the school or some public place where it will be noticed. Music is usually sound connecting ground (bad pun). But if SWIY's school is really so small or so lacking in variety of people, perhaps it's better that SWIY spends his time away from school at lunch and other breaks. If SWIY's school is in town/city then try to find someone in the city SWIY can relate to, not necessarily someone from school. SWIM found he spent his last year of high school alone much of the time. There were people there that liked him and that he liked, but he was very absorbed in understanding the world and his place in it and spent many of his lunch hours alone, reading. Anyways, looks like there is very possible fix for SWIY's situation: moving back to the old city or at least a different one from the present. So if it's really completely awful, SWIY could drop out and try to work and live in the old school, or try to support their self while going to school. But it may be best to stick it out through high school. If SWIY has free lonely time at school, use it to ace courses so SWIY can get scholarships and get yourself to a kicking city. Just some suggestions, hopefully helpful.

Wishing things get better (for everyone reading this thread)

[SuprSonik]

There's so many people talking about needing drugs to alleviate their depression .... maybe that was the initial reason and logic. But at this stage i dont think its stupid of me to say perhaps drugs are now maintaining or aggrevating yer depression.

Quit all chemicals for a month and then see how you feel....if suicide is on your mind then what have you go to lose ?

SWIM has taken breaks periodically, and it never helps. Even if SWIM has no addiction that he needs to feed, he still feels more depressed without them than with them. He begins to feel how he did before he started using drugs, which is even worse than he feels now.

SWIM thinks that drugs may be a cause of depression for some people, but not all. SWIM thinks that the very reason many people start using drugs is because they are depressed, and because they can be used to help with depression.

[aerozeppelin123]

What about going to talk to a therapist? Might help to get things of your chest and possibly resolve problems. Also I don't think this has been mentioned so far, but the dietary supplement 5-HTP taken once or twice daily will raise serotonin levels, which can often lead to improved self-esteem.

Hope things work out OK in the end for you

[podge]

SWIM thinks that drugs may be a cause of depression for some people, but not all. SWIM thinks that the very reason many people start using drugs is because they are depressed, and because they can be used to help with depression.

And does swiy know what was the cause of his depression was? What does swiy do with his time when he's not on the internet and what would swy like to do which he isnt doing ?

[tryptamaster]

swim has been clinically depressed since age 10. when he was 13 he started using drugs(mainly weed) to cope with his depression. While it did make him feel happier it also let him meet alot of new people. Swim is 16 now and still depressed but feels getting a gf and making new friends helps ALOT. swim also weight lifts now. despite all tis however swim stll feels very empty. an ocasinal psychedelic trip renews swims faith in life itself. Swim also gets relif from seeing other people happy, swim is jsut glad they can go throuh their days and feel normal.

[meaculpa]

swim has suffered depression and anxiety for as long as she can remember. when swim was a teenager she used to starve herself as a way of feeling in control, but never developed a full blown eating disorder. swim decided at age 14 [after reading a book called Alice] that she liked the sound of all drugs and would try them at the earliest oppertunity. swim didn`t go looking for drugs but if they found her she took them, she dabbled in acid, speed and cannabis, she didn`t get much from acid, didn`t like speed or cannabis [paranoia] but then she discovered cocaine and ecstasy which swim loved, and went on a 18 month binge as well as drinking heavily. swim got into a lot of debt and had to make herself bankrupt. swim could no longer afford coke and e`s but discovered codeine, cheap and easily available and effective in curing swims depression/anxiety. swim sought help for her mental health problems before getting into hard drugs and was prescribed AD`s, they didn`t help, hence 18 month binge and subsequent codeine addiction. after 5 years of popping 30 pills a day swim had had enough so asked her gp for help, swim was sent to a DTC and was prescribed methadone to help her beat codeine addiction and had a course of CB therapy for depression/anxiety problem. neither helped and swim was then addicted to both meth and codeine. after 18 months swim decided to go cold turkey, swim went a bit nuts but then was clean for 1 year, then swim fell back into codeine addiction, although not as bad as before swim currently takes 10/12 codeine pills per day, 1 5mg diazepam and drinks alcohol most nights. swim wants to stop but anxiety problem is now worse than ever and swim is lost. swim would hope that younger members who suffer from anxiety/depression will seek proffesional help rather than self-medicating , as swim has found that drug abuse has only added to her problems rather than solved them. swim wishes everyone peace and happiness :) [preferably without the use of drugs]

[lostmente]

swim kills off the ego

[jakored]

Swims love for mind altering substances came out of the need to escape hurtful things and sorrow.Ofcourse swim can not always afford to escape in this way.Swim wonders how other people deal with hurtful things and being depressed without the use of chemicals?Maybe swim can find the magic solution he has been looking for for so long with the help of other people on df?Swim certainly hopes!

SWIM can't do psychadelics while depressed, or, as before, he almost went to jail fighting with numerous police officers...

Instead, in a bad frame of mind, think avout 1) things you can change, and start slowly, bit by bit making an effort to change the situations you hate.
2) realize what you cannot change, and accept this as fate, life, karma, God, whatever.
3) Find, or use swims good friends too talk minimally about this sort of thing, if possible. Swim only has 1 actual friend who understands the same sorts of demons which are prevalent in him, and, just confuses or freaks out his other friends...choose wisely.

Unfortunately, swim has had dysthymic (long term low-level) depression for ~8 years, and still struggles with it. Writing, even if noone ever sees swims feelings, or doing something he loves, is an outlet, and can help.

[Capita]

I believes that depression can also be treated with a lot of less evasive things like.
1 A healthy diet
If you look at the correlation of people eating crappy food and depression its pretty surprising. Our dies consist of more saturated fats and less polyunsaturated omega fats. The lack of omega's is believed to contribute to depression. Eating a good diet can do wonders for your body.
2 exercise
Makes more of endorphins come out and just makes you feel better and make me go to bed better at night
4 sleep
eight hours is recommended and exactly what i like to get any less i feel miserable any more i feel groggy still for over sleeping.
5 stop drugs
Cleanse your body

[~lostgurl~]

The lack of omega's is believed to contribute to depression.

This is very true, I've been taking omega 3 supplements for about 6 months now, I ran out once for a week or 2 and I really noticed a big drop in my mood which improved again once I had restocked.

[klonopinz]

Swim would like to point out some curious facts about anti-depressants.

After Lilly Co. completed the development of Prozac (Fluoxetine) and started clinical trials, it had to go through 5 trials, before actually showing a "positive" result in the required two before being accepted by the FDA. The makers of paroxetine (Paxil) had to do even more to get their 2. While at this, placebo consistently show marked improvement for depression in all trials, involving all different drugs. More so, after taking placebo therapy, significant changes in the same parts of the brain that are thought to control important facets of mood took place while antidepressants did not.

From this and many other accounts and facts, Swim has come to the following conclusions: Swim should not take a drug that cheated on its midterms. It just seems that since already billions have been invested for a drug class to exist, these chemicals had to, at any cost, exhibit the desired effects, in order to permit sale. And that the single most tested method (and most safe) for depression is placebo, which is assesed every time any one drug is part of a trial study.

Swim saved the most interesting fact for last. The moment the 73% of improved depressive state patients learned their treatment was a hoax, symptomps quickly returned in most, if not all patients.

[humdroid]

Drug wise, ecstasy opened swims mind and facilitated a lot of anti-depression actions and attitudes, thus indirectly acting as an anti D.
LSD and mushroomy stuff could be seen as one too, as long as they are taken in smll doses and sensibly.
They made swim more sensible.
The laughter off them is also therapy.
Deit and suplements though, for the main.

Waiting it out.
sharing, if you can, but please ensure you share with the right person, as a problem can become doubled and not halfed if not.

Avoiding triggers, life changes.

Y wants to add later: Kanna Kanna and more Kanna (precautions apply as for SSRI though, as Kanna acts like one) Kanna aka Sceletium tortuosum.

[ripdas112]

-Keep your mind off issues (go out with mates etc)
-Exercise
-Stop taking drugs for awhile (your body might be dependant on it, mood etc)

[cra$h]

Swim thinks he's developing a chronic depression, since this is going on for a year or so now; here's the story:

Swim was always a good student, but then grades started to slip, just because he was more focused on his social life. Then grades started to go down, but not bad. He's used to B's, and a couple A's, and it went to B's with a couple C's. Then the grades went A, B,C, D, but never, and still has never failed a course. Swim didn't care though, he has friends instead, they're more importaint for now. 1 1/2 years later,Swim starts using drugs, and becomes a pothead, grades don't improve, swim brags about how great and fun marijuana is, and starts drinking. Then he gets in an exploratory age, and figgures, this drug must be fun, and I'll do it once for the experience. then swim gets hooked on opiates and alcohol (not combined, of course) but keeps it under control. Meanwhile this girl is a HUGE tease, and it seems like we both love eachother unconditionally, but we never get our time, and still havent. This has been happening for almost 3 years, and is the worst it's ever been. To make a long story short now, swim's broken up with his girlfriend (not the one mentioned before) because he's out of control with drug use, and drugs ar his priority. one thing swim never wanted to hear was "wow, all you think about is drugs", and within the last week, he heard it, and was heartbroken. Now family is embarassed from swim drinking, after getting smashed infront of close friends, to everyone's ignorance of swim's drinking. But the last year or so, swim just isn't generally happy. It hurts to smile to big, and realizing that, is a hard pill to swallow, plus the drugs, plus the women, plus the tight rope swim's walking between a sucsessful, educated professional pschiatrist, or a drug addict, living on the streets just lookin' to get high. There's no in between, and it all seems to build up. But swim has been given everything he wants, materiallisticly, but still feels like he's missing something. Companionship would be increadable, but just like the drugs, it's just a distraction from constant reflection of how everything is turning to shit, and most of the time it's out of my control.

Swim's never seeked out for professional help, but when he asked for a psychoanalysis, family just said, yea sure, and never persued; atleast not yet, this was 3 days ago. This could be the blues, but the blues don't last years.

So, being generally unhappy for over a year sound like depression? Throughout swim's life he's always been told he thinks differently, and more frequently will hear voices, especially while listening to music, and hallucinate bugs, or words being mixed up, etc. to the point he has to double take and scrutinize the surroundings for the truth.

[kerang]

Dealing with depression? Swim plows thru it and shutters it of afterwards. He is in a situation where he can afford to crawl under the blanket for some time and is not dependant on filling a job.
Even tho it sucks while it peaks, if swiy imagine a negative peak, he feel like he picks up some valuable pieces of knowledge each time.

[ScorpioSunshine]

Swim has various ways she copes --today, she's crying her eyes out. (no sympathy needed ... swim is upset and needs to cuss and cry and bang her fists)

[humdroid]

Identify and remove the cause, :cool:

[cra$h]

what if you are the cause?

[Euphoric]

Cra$h, not to sound unsympathetic towards SWIY (and I think other posters have done the same thing in this thread) but this thread is for people to share things that have helped with depression. I must recommend that SWIY and all poster's with stories about (that don't mention ways of coping) or questions regarding their own or their associates be directed to professional help or a different forum.

For SWICra$h, if you (hypothetically) are the cause, what aspect of you? Can it be changed? Most likely. With enough practice and re-enforcement those self-loathing thoughts can probably be brought to a halt.

From SWICra$h's second last post in this thread, it sounds like SWIY has a drug problem and needs to reign in and deal with his problem. With professional help if necessary.

There are many more possibilities for SWICra$h's future than the success or junky options mentioned above. The future is full of surprises. If SWIY's family is not active in getting SWIY professional help, SWIY should take that step themself.

If SWICra$h would like to speak more about this, they can PM me, or start another thread if they think the info they share will help others who may come across it. Just note that I am no replacement for good professional help. I lack any real qualifications, but I'll try to help to a certain extent if desired.

I will also mention to readers of this thread that they should familiarize themselves with the forum's policy on posts about self-harm and suicide before posting about such things if they are considering. I believe most such posts will be removed and the user will be referred to contacts for professional help.

All the best to everyone.

Euphoric added 4 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

Oh, I also wanted to mention that I'm pretty sure that saying "Take E" is against the rules. Endorsing illegal activity is not allowed on the forum. However one could share someone's personal experience by saying that "E helped SWIM deal with his depression". This, like any treatments will not be right for everyone, and should be researched thoroughly before anyone tries it, should they have a legal way of doing so, which is unlikely unless they are part of a research study or something. Can you say run-on sentence? Anyways, I think the point has been made.

[static_vodka_420]

swim has 3 tactics all of them involving drugs as swim has panic attacks to the point of covulsing so he needs something keeping him calm while he works everything out

tactic 1- swim purchases salvia 40x and hawAIAN baby woodrose seeds , sets his mind on solving the problems, and gains insight from the trip.. repeated trips are often necessarry...any psyxhadellic will do but swim has the most experience with the aforementioned two so he is able to focus the trip more so than with other ones.


tactic 2 -swim smokes cannabis heavilly, starts drinking everyday, then begins taking benzos and opiates everyday as well..he walks around in a daze so he doesnt have to deal with reality until he fucks his situation up so much that hes forced and he gets back on top of things right before hitting rock bottom.. in a sort of afterglow he uses very little drugs in the week or 2 following this(note this is more of a recurring pattern than an actual strategy)

tactic 3- swim binges on uppers and attempts to fix everything in his lefe he fucked up that made him depressed.. swim usually ends up with outstanding marks in college, a new girlfriend, and one hell of a headache for a week afterwards(swim uses this one when he absolutelly has to get a few things done and worked out)

swim would reccomend tactic 1 the other 2 are a lot more dangerous

swim has been given around 15 different antidepressants and none of them ever worked he feels depression is a cycle that needs to be worked out one cant just fix it with a pill one has to find and do something about the underlying causes

[MrG]

Bravo to all who vouch for the "healthy body, healthy mind" ethos, it is often so very true.

Whilst I am certainly not qualified to make recommendations for the *seriously* afflicted, I will freely admit to having suffered from SOUL-CRUSHING panic-attacks and free-floating anxiety over a particular period of my life (10+ years). St John's Wort (OTC herbal remedy), three times a day, helped incredibly well to tame that beast. It needs to be taken for a few weeks, usually, before the full effects are noticed but, when they are, the relief is palpable!

A huuuuge amount can also be said for quitting tobacco, even if one can't quit the leaf, changing from the pre-made cigarettes in packs to hand rolling, loose, tobacco *does* make a difference.

Finally, get your teeth fixed. No, not Hollyweird bright white stylee, just make sure that there are no abscesses that you are unaware of, as they can leach poisonous pus into the bloodstream which *will* affect your wellbeing. Personal experience proved that one. Getting them treated by a dentist and taking a full course of antibiotics if prescribed (always the whole course btw, even if you start feeling better).

Be well.

[Euphoric]

Why loose leaf over pre-made?

[MrG]

Wayyyy fewer added chemicals.

Tobacco leaf itself is only a small part of the health problem, have you read the list of what chemicals are added to pre-made cigarettes? *shudders*

SWIM can also personally vouch that the jonesing for a 'rollie' is a lot less than for a 'straight'.

Neither are great but loose-leaf is certainly the lesser of two evils.

Put it this way, I never had panic attacks before I smoked and I have never had one since I quit. Could be a coincidence, sure.

[MrG]

Sorry for the back-to-back posting, someone asked me to expound further on St John's Wort.

This person mentioned that they have been on Klonopin for 6+ years. I did a quick check on what Klonopin is: It is a benzodiazepine.

This same web resource on Klonopin (http://www.drugs.com/klonopin.html) also makes the following recommendation:

Klonopin should be used for only a short time. Do not take this medication for longer than 9 weeks without your doctor's advice.

So, yet again but with a different med this time, I am left seething at the US (because it just *has* to be someone based in the US who has been put on this stuff for over 6 years!) medical practitioners' usual "pile 'em high, sell 'em high, keep 'em high" ethos.

St John's Wort doesn't usually need much in the way of guidance other than what can be found on the label/package insert. It can be bought pretty much anywhere and, apart from the most idiotic countries, is completely OTC.

Taken with breakfast, lunch and dinner in order to make sure an upset tummy was avoided, I did not experience any side-effects.

Most websites providing information on SJW nowadays are chock full of the usual scare-tactics and hysteria in order to avoid the ever-present threat of the lazy lawsuit and, as a result, I am unable to proffer further information on the substance.

Call me chicken but someone who is eager to have a patient on a 6 year K-pin script is likely to have a real rottweiller of a lawyer should their cash cow start refusing to be milked.

All I can say is that, if you are interested in a herbal alternative to your current anti-depressant and only then if you have not been diagnosed with a serious mental disorder, it may be worth researching more into the substance.

[entheogensmurf]

Swims love for mind altering substances came out of the need to escape hurtful things and sorrow.Ofcourse swim can not always afford to escape in this way.Swim wonders how other people deal with hurtful things and being depressed without the use of chemicals?Maybe swim can find the magic solution he has been looking for for so long with the help of other people on df?Swim certainly hopes!

My apathy keeps me pretty darn safe, not factoring other mental disciplines which may contribute to my neutral/well-being state.

My depression, if that's what it is, consists of one of the following every other year or three:
1. Excessive sleeping
2. Severe insomnia

Primarily on the latter (the first only occurring twice). I mention this to explain that it's possible that I lack a point of reference in a sense.

Here's how I deal with shit:
Accept reality.
If I fuck up, I admit it to myself. Denial rapes the nerves and wears the body/mind out in my opinion.
I've found that exerting any energy to suppress what I know is true, tends to bring about quasi-neurotic behavior (nothing dangerous).
Be aware that negative/depression may not always stem from a rational source.
Example: PMS or the male equivalent

Just being consciously aware that it's not coming from a rational source (i.e. a gun pointed at your head) is not the remedy itself but a tool to lessen the grip that shrouds the psyche.
To not be aware allows the mind to wander and find reasons which are not necessarily there. I imagine a person with even minute paranoid would start to create conspiracy theories ;)

Not last (I feeling a bit distracted to ramble on) and not least:
Exercise! I bike to work every day, weather permitting (it's nearly all ice here ATM which = bus, so by default I'm getting at least 5.5-6 hours of fairly workout type fun.

I have noticed in the past a direct correlation to inactivity over a course of a few months to a decrease in well-being.

Oh wait, I can't forget to throw this out:
Introspection and a touch of meditation (I'm borderline if not ADD endowed so "meditation" is normally impossible)!
That shit helps curb issues before they flower and spread their seed.

Life is just a ride!

More to come (later) probably and be well.

[insomnizombie]

yes drugs do work but they work to well. i'm finally giving in and gonna try legal anti depressants as its just to much for me and its been that way for too long. i just want to say that anyone considering suicide please think long and hard about it and try to really make sure you understand the depth of such a decision. when i tried to end my life i did not want to live anymore but once i got to the edge of death i realized that it is possible to not want to live and also not want to die either and luckily i was saved but it was a horrorific experience and it is true what they say about suicide not being the answer. at least its not a good one and if you can stop trusting yourself and trust me, an answer will come along if your pacient even though it doesn't seem like it

[Dreznik]

this may sound totally stoopid .. but it is not a joke nor am i fukin around. #1) your diet. YES i know ... just stay away from all fried + shit food, pm me for details.... eat CLEAN*****...no fast food, huge portions. :thumbsup: YES i understaNd your ...

[humdroid]

It's depression, which is currently keeping Y off base.

It's easy to say 'stay off the chems' but some people are chem prone when depressed. Others fight, or bawl out people, still others gamble, others get stoned, some steal, some get drunk, and so on.

We all have our particular vice.
Y turns to chemicals when depressed, but as the first line of this post says, it's the post chemical depression which has deterred him from using, as it hasnt gone away, since the last useage a couple of months ago.

Diet is the most important. What we put in our bodies. Sleep also.
We make our own chemicals.
Y would suggest looking at supplements and herbs. Different things work for different people.
L-tyrosine was one which Y used, and he hasnt been able to get hold of any for a few weeks. He noticed the depression worsen.
Y would suggest googling about, but the usual health precautions apply.
SSRI's are an option, but Y feels, some of the issues which cropped up with his past mdma and speed use would be too much, so Y opted for supplements and herbs.

It's about getting the brain to make good neurotransmitters, and doing the things which precipitate that. Afterall, that's SWIM's take our beloved naughty chemicals, so the brain makes friendly neurotransmitters.

I've made a few words bold, for you to have a google on.
Y took some time to collect information, read other's experiences of various herbs and supplements, and chose my own, I'm still experimenting, but have somehow survived a couple of months without my beloved chemicals.

humdroid added 13 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

SWIM enjoys opioids very much, but has been able to keep his use under control so far. He finds himself getting dangerously close at times to a serious addiction however, and fears that it's almost certain he will end up a junky with enough time. SWIM also has a bad habit of drinking too much and using too many benzodiazepines. Without them SWIM constantly feels like just killing himself, as it seems there's no other permanent solution to dealing with depression.

SWIM was happy when he first started using drugs, as finally there was a solution. But now, it just seems like he's postponing an inevitable breakdown. SWIM can take higher doses and different drugs, but that will only lead to worse places. SWIM would rather be happy, or at least content, and live a short life than be miserable and live a long life, though. It's sad that those seem to be the only 2 choices SWIM has.

humdroid added 1 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

SWIM enjoys opioids very much, but has been able to keep his use under control so far. He finds himself getting dangerously close at times to a serious addiction however, and fears that it's almost certain he will end up a junky with enough time. SWIM also has a bad habit of drinking too much and using too many benzodiazepines. Without them SWIM constantly feels like just killing himself, as it seems there's no other permanent solution to dealing with depression.

SWIM was happy when he first started using drugs, as finally there was a solution. But now, it just seems like he's postponing an inevitable breakdown. SWIM can take higher doses and different drugs, but that will only lead to worse places. SWIM would rather be happy, or at least content, and live a short life than be miserable and live a long life, though. It's sad that those seem to be the only 2 choices SWIM has.
Y didnt get an addiction to opitates, but he did get an addiction to amphetamines.
Y had depression and breakdowns long before any drug.
Post-comedown depression is what is currently keeping Y of the speed at the minute, it's that bad, even speed is shunned, it's been like this for weeks ???.

Experience tells Y, however, that if we expect to be depressed and never allow ourselves to consider our lives turning out otherwise, depressed we will be.
This is because, no matter how low we go, luck always seems to depend on which way we are facing.
Y's experience tells him, that when he is feeling lower than low, life has only got better, on those occasions, when Y was facing, towards improvement, whilst sat down, in his low pit.
If Y faced towards further doom and deterioration, while down there, down life turned.
Im no scientist, or mysticist, but Y thinks its some universal law.

Too depressed to take speed, hmm, funny how life works out.

[Euphoric]

I think it is worth mentioning to those who rely on supplements for serotonin (5-htp or tryptophan) and dopamine/norepinephrine (tyrosine) that so long as the body is getting a sufficient amount of complete protein (animal or soy) intake then the body will get its essential amino acids and can synthesize its own non-essential ones.

It's been said in this thread and in many other things regarding wellbeing before, but a healthy diet is very important!

[warandhate]

Swim finds it impossible to escape.It is like a storm of depression and swim is trapped in the open with no shelter.It only gets worse as the years go on.Swim regrets suboxone maintenance sort of suboxone doesn't take away lifes pain like methadone or oxycontin.It is nice not to have to spend huge amounts of money not to get sick but on a whole suboxone is not that enjoyable.Swim wishes he could fight depression non chemically but he just can't.

i feels you on that. swims been on subs too long and moms is gettin tired of paying for it and all he does is watch movies and sit in his room. very depressing but he still has hope.

swim was using lexapro (escitalopram) and aT first he thought it was working but swim thinks it just makes him more drowsy and not very motivated. kinda comfortably numb without the comfortable part. swims doc was not happy he stopped treatment she thinks he has very bad anxiety and really needs the stuff. She cut his ritalin dose in half because of this. he goes thru his ritas in a bout a day or two. then has nothing but subs for the rest of the month.

interesting that you say methadone takes lifes pain away. swim didnt know that.

right now swim is trying to think of a way to get high. he knows its not good to try and escape but it gets me out of my parents house to have a little fun and interaction with a friend or two.

i really think the way to cure depression is LOVE. the times ive been happy i have had many friends and a girl i loved. times ive been depressed ive had 0-1 friend and no girl to shake a stick at.

lovelovelovelovelove

the opposite of my handle

PEACEANDLOVE

will someone please rate my post good even if they dont tihnk its the greatest i hate that fuckin red bar telling me to read the rules. thank you godbreasts

[dyingtomorrow]

Swim finds it impossible to escape.It is like a storm of depression and swim is trapped in the open with no shelter.It only gets worse as the years go on.Swim regrets suboxone maintenance sort of suboxone doesn't take away lifes pain like methadone or oxycontin.It is nice not to have to spend huge amounts of money not to get sick but on a whole suboxone is not that enjoyable.Swim wishes he could fight depression non chemically but he just can't.
SWIM just came across this, and was kind of shocked because last night he had a long conversation explaining to a family member how suboxone makes him feel "empty" and "hollow." How methadone and other full agonist opiates (heroin most of all) make him feel normal and full, but that there is just something weird about suboxone that makes him feel like a zombie. Not even like a zombie; zombies have substance. Like a wistful spirit who died ages ago and has only a very thin corporatlity and relationship with reality. SWIM just reminds himself that it's better than withdrawing, and better than how he felt before opiates.

[stephy171072]

Swim has been suffering with depression for 6 years now and swim has tried lots of things chemical and non chemical to try and pull her out of it but nothing has really worked. Some things for a short period of time but swim always falls back into it again. The only thing that has brought swim any unchemically related joy in the last few months was putting effort into my familys christmas gifts and really going out with them even wrapping them in really expencive fancy wrapping paper and stuff and just doing things that bring happines to other people swim finds makes you feel a bit better about your self.

This feeling never last for long with swim though. Most days swim dosn't get out of bed untill about 8pm. Not that swim can actually sleep, swim just lyes there wishing everything would just stop because she is sick of feeling like this. Swims depression has led to drugs and alchol addiction and she had even managed to move away to university but now is back at step one living in her parents house and barley saying a word to anyone all week. Swim has tried councelling and a number of diffrenet antidepressents, excersise, nothing seems to work :( So now swim just relies on heroin to escape from all the pain of the world. Addmitadly it has just made swims life worse but it is the only way she feels she can cope with life and if the first thing she finds herself looking forward to in years.

[BuriedinFrost]

So swim's been reading a few of these posts and when he has the time he will read them all, because for once swim felt a little happier without being under the influence listening to all of you, knowing he is not alone. swims been dealing with depression for a while now, swim don't know how it started, but swim's been dealing with it for a long time now. he had a rough childhood (but didn't we all in one way or another?) parents hooked on meth, fighting, beatings, everything always broken and look like shit. Swim started with marijuana and it took him away instantly to a heavenly place. Since the first hit of pot, swim used psychedelics alot to put himself into other realitys, and then one day swim got a big bottle of Vicodin. Now swim finds himself with a ridiculous tolerance, using heroin, oxy, whatever he can get his hands on. He has been through painful withdrawals, come almost out of the deep dark woods and gone back in again all because of the depression...he fears the inevitable future of his junkydom but still feels like he can control all this somehow...he just wants to be happy, but everyday life isn't worth living and he just wants to die, swim will need to move out soon and then he will most likely be homeless for a while until a roommate is secure, and swim is too embarrased to room with anyone with such an addictive problem. Recreational is one thing, using it on a semi-regular basis to unwind is one thing, (swim smokes pot on the daily tho, he doesn't mind that, it works quite well for him) but swim has a big problem with opiates and he is too weary of going on psychiatric meds or talking to a doctor, fearing they will realize he has clinical depression, anxiety, and possibly slight bi-polar disorder (the first two are certain, the third is iffy) and an addictive personality like a mofucker. If they know this, they will be very weary of ever prescribing swim the things that make life worth while when the end is near, or just when swim is sick or hurt. They will be weary of opiates, benzos and many other nice medicines with an addictive risk. Swim also does not want the chemical balance of his brain altered with pills every day because sometimes he fights the depression for the sake of his own mental health, but generaly only when no drugs are around. He wants a chemical that he can take when he is having anxiety attacks and suicidal thoughts and is freaking out breaking stuff that will simply sedate him, swim also has major insomnia...i've been droning on for a while...and of course the best thing would be if swim could just achieve the euphoria and peace of mind he so desperately seeks on his own force of will.

[jakored]

swim has attempted suicide as a youngin, and nearly "killed" himself (jail time) with a very bad mushroom trip which involved police officers and a few paramedics, nerve damage and a giant tranquilizer.

This was mostly centered at anger at ones self, and his father, which the issues are unresolved. Luckily, being a larger guy, Swim was more intent on destroying his Own body rather then the police officers, garnering a hospital stay versus prison time.

Swim still has peaks and valleys, but mostly is a constant low-level stress.

Swim needs to eat well, exercise, and accomplish at least half of what he needs too in order to feel "complete" otherwise, will Binge on almost anything: watching tv / playing computer till 6 am for three nights in a row, drinking himself to sleep, taking any pills available etc.

Swim needs a councillor, because he has found that NORMALLY, if you have somone uninvolved whom you can speak of (even typing on a random forum such as this can help swim), you can get out of funks sometimes.

Additionally, when depression hits home, try to think "why am I ___ why do I think ___ why does this cause me ___" you will eventually find out why swim IS actually depressed, which can lead to realizations that could help the depression.

[RFIM.]

SWIM doesnt deal with her depression well. SWIM would say Valium is a good answer, but thats not really natural.
But SWIM would say that exercise, and fresh air really help. Going for walks outdoors is always fun. Or writing can help. Anything creative can get rid of bad aura, if you ask me.

[Marty McFly]

depression and the mind are tow complicated things and hard to understand eaver. Some one on here has probably said this already but it can be next to imposable to pin point the reason SWIY's dearest! It could be for no specific reason and this person may wont to consult a doctor as Clinical depression is very common.

As for the drugs SWIM thinks they should be strictly for fun:thumbsup:! If SWIY takes them to deal with with any problems in there lives then that could lead to more problems.

[ronaldo]

What it boils down to is being yourself, respecting yourself and accepting the bad stuff. Do the things you love but are too frightened of chasing. SWIM loves acting but he is way too scared to drop all his commitments in the hope of becoming Al Pacino. What is it that makes you happy. Do it lots and you will notice the difference.

[HumansAre]

Social activity... SWIM thinks being social is THE BEST and MOST IMPORTANT THING SWIY can do to cure depression. social activity with people who arent in the same addictive depressed state. "Only make friends with those that are better than you" -I forget, lol. exercise... also another thing someone told swim is to take drama out of swiy life/thought... Drama doesn't exist! don't exagerate emotions, don't make up your own drama from emotions, that includes making drama out of physical/world problems. get it?

swim has been sober for 5 days, and off and on for the past 2 or 3 weeks. right now swim feels great sober, and just keeps thinking that SWIM has already learned disiplin of using drugs. So when swim gets an urge swim just says "Oh hey, i don't need to do that because It hasn't been a week yet, and I KNOW i got the disiplin thing down so I just can't!"

Stay busy, and swim doesn't mean sitting in front of the computer surfing forums or surfing things that are depressing or communicating with depressing movies, and music. Balance is key. Balance everything about life. food, drugs, tv, computer, books, social activity, happy things, sad things. The truth for some people(?) is that being sad feels good but you can't OD on that happy sad feeling. It may be tricky at first... swim is still learning.
peace and luck ;)

HumansAre added 1 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

also like other people said regular self respect.

[ex-junkie]

hmmz. swim has some social issues still after all this time, however they are simply a result of spending too much time alone, and being isolated where she lives. this is not her hometown, and she doesnt enjoy the same things as other people that live here.

to deal with depression, swim found that eating fish often makes her brighter, more productive, more creative, and all around happy. she doesnt take anti depressants, because in her experience, shes been worse whilst taking them.

keeping your fluids up is also worth a mention, as dehydration can play an important role in the feeling of shitness. getting sunlight in the morning is equally as important. sometimes its the little things that work the best.

:)

its also a good thing to take note of things when they make you feel good/happy, and then turn to these things (preferably not drugs) when youre feeling down. sometimes photos, funny youtube links/websites, pictures of serene environments can be great for that little boost when you need it the most.

[duG22]

just try to keep busy.. like someone else said just watch movies or pick up a hobby like music or something, music is great.

if that fails ask the doc for some adderall.. thats what swim did

yeah people are gonna disagree but swim thinks adderall helps me with his deppression.. disagree? tuff shit

[rhcpeppers1234]

Adderall and ritalin may be good, until you come down, then you will probably be more depressed. Swim really liked adderall until he weighed himself and he was like 12 lbs lighter than when he started takin it. (keep in mind swim has ADD pretty bad)

Take melatonin before you go to bed, better sleep means a better day.

Also there are many herbs that one can take. aka damiana valerian root, scullcap, passion flower. These are in no way ment to replace real drugs, but they can be very calming and uplifting. Hope this helps :)

[duG22]

ok swims going out on a limb here but he says you should try morning glory. the trip sucks very bad but when you return back to your normal self its very uplifting

just an idea, swims on mg right now

[Master_Khan]

It is said, I think in the Lankavatara Sutra, that unskilled farmers throw away their rubbish and buy manure from other farmers, but those who are skilled go on collecting their own rubbish, in spite of the bad smell and the unclean work, and when it is ready to be used they spread it on their land, and out of this they grow their crops. That is the skilled way. In exactly the same way, the Buddha says, those who are unskilled will divide clean from unclean and will try to throw away samsara and search for nirvana, but those who are skilled boddhisatvas will not throw away desires and the passions and so on, but will first gather them together. That is to say, one should first recognize and acknowledge them, and study them and bring them to realization. So the skilled boddhisatva will acknowledge and accept all these negative things. And this time he knows that he has all these terrible things in him, and although it is very difficult and unhygienic, as it were, to work on, that is the only way to start. And then he will scatter them on the field of bodhi. Having studied all these concepts and negative things, when the time is right he does not keep them anymore, but scatters them and uses them as manure. So out of these unclean things comes the birth of the seed which is realization. This is how one has to give birth. And the very idea that concepts are bad, and such-and-such a thing is bad, divides the whole thing, with the result that you are not left with anything at all to deal with. And it that case you either have to be completely perfect, or else battle through all these things and try to knock them all out. But when you have this hostile attitude and try to suppress things, then each time you knock one thing out another springs up in its place, and when you attack that one, another comes up from somewhere else. There is this continual trick of the ego, so that when you try to disentangle one part of the knot, you pull on the string and only make it tighter somewhere else, so you are continually trapped in it. Therefore the thing is not to battle anymore, not to try and sort out the bad things and only achive good, but respect them and acknowledge them. So theory and concepts are very good like wonderful manure.

[...]So comming back to the subject of concepts, which is a very important example, the idea behind this is to develope a positive outlook and to recognize your great wealth...One has a tendency to try and abandon [conceps and ideas] or throw them away. But one should cultivate them...since you already have enough wealth, just go through it. Just as a person who wants to buy something first has to check and see how much money he has...In this way you gain a complete understanding of what you are, and that is more important than continuously creating...The point of realization is not to try and understand only the awakened state and pretend not to understand the other side, because that becomes a way of cheating oneself. You see, you are your own best friend, your own closest frined, you are the best company for yourself. One know one's own weaknesses and inconsistency, one knows how much wrong one has done, one knows it all in detail, so it doesn't help to try and pretend you don't know it, or to try not to think of that side and only think of the good side; that would mean that one was still storing one's rubbish. [And] you would not have enough manure to raise a crop from this wonderful field of bodhi. So you shold go through and study even right back to your childhood...and try to understand [it]...One must also examine fear and expectation. If there is fear of death, one examines that; if one fears old age, one examines that. If one feel uneasy about a certain ugliness in oneself, or a certain disability or physical weakness of any kind, one examines them as well. And one should also examine one's mental image of oneself, and anything one may feel bad about. It is very painful in the beginning - as Brahma showed by breaking down - when you first go through it and see it. But this is the only way to do it. Sometimes one touches on a very painful spot where one is almost too shy to look into it, but somehow one still has to go through it. And by going into it one finally achieves a real command of oneself, one gains a thorough knowledge of oneself for the first time.

This should be required reading for students everywhere. It says so eloquently what I would be hard-pressed to give words to, but it rings of the truth and more.

First swims heart goes out to all the great people at DF that battle depression. We have all I dare say carried the world on our shoulders at one time or another. What swim has learned is that if you know the truth, the truth will set you free. Knowing the truth is seeing yourself clearly and honestly, and also seeing others and life in general the same way. We are raised by our loving parents being told that we are beautiful and perfect and smart and everything will always be alright and we think of ourselves as we grow up as the person that other people see through their eyes. And then of course we learn the truth. We learn that life is not all happiness and joy. Life is full of pain, suffering, and disappointment. We are not beautiful like Mommy told us; we are greedy and selfish and capable of terrible violence and deceit. Like the farmer from the above quote, we have a lot of our own rubbish and pretending that it does not exist is a painful fallacy.

In short, swim knows that he is just a man nothing more, and that is nothing to be too proud of. This was a tremendously horrifying realization for swim because he was always quite sure that he was much more than a man, maybe not quite a god, but the universe revolved around him, no doubt. :)

Furthermore swim knows that the only thing he deserves is to die for his sins, so his expectations for nothing but health, wealth, and happiness have been adjusted downwards rather dramatically. The upside is swim takes nothing for granted and takes every small favor as a gift from above.

Thanks to Third Eye for an immensely cool post.

[beemac]

SWIM has had problems with depression since being about 15. It runs in his family on both his mum's and his dad's sides.

In school swim never really acknowledged what the problem was and just thought he was lazy. It was diagnosed at 16 and swim has been on and off SSRIs over the 7 years, mostly off though, I hasten to add.

Swim finds that SSRIs are NOT a long term solution at all, but can be what is necessary to bring him out of the deep dark hole that he sometimes ends up in. I would thoroughly recommend lots of excercise, spending lots of time socialising and with friends and ROUTINE. For me this is the biggy :)

[Catnap]

I cant really add to the advice already given.

Having been depressed for years SWIM has come to understand that anti depressants are just like a sticky plaster. They dont deal with the real issue. Also the term 'depression' is very subjective. SWIM mistrusts the medical profession to a degree - they have told SWIM she is clinically depressed and has a chemical imbalance but they have never tested SWIM so how do they know? SWIM feels they just picked the diagnosis out of the air and wrote out the usual prescription for SSRI's and sleeping tablets. While they have helped SWIM to a degree they are not the answer.

SWIM has realised that she just feels sad about the amount of hatred and cruelty in the world and has strong empathic tendencies. SWIM does not fit in to the little boxes that society wants us all to fit in under the label of being 'normal'. What the hell is normal anyway? When SWIM looks at the history of mental health and the way it is 'treated' she sees a different picture to the one mainstream society wishes SWIM to see. This knowledge is helping SWIM adjust her feelings and outlook.

SWIM is sorry she cant be of more help but wants anyone who feels depressed to know that they are not alone.

Catnap added 9 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

SWIM forgot to add that therapy has been VERY helpful - much more so than the SSRI's (and SWIM has been on a few). Definitely worth a try and a huge help with the right therapist.

[Lady Codone]

SWIM manages her "depression" (really chronic fatigue/low motivation) by balancing work/responsibilities with fun/recreation and allotting plenty of time for myself to just be alone and chill. Of course SWIM uses substances to help her escape from her bad feelings temporarily, but never in dangerous or reckless doses; just enough to get the job done.

SWIM has also been on anti-depressants for the past 9 years--Luvox, Lexapro, Effexor, Risperdal, Anafranil, Elavil, Wellbutrin, and currently Prozac--but finds that she's actually much "happier" without them (AFTER the withdrawal period of course). They make her feel dull and emotionless, but quitting causes SWIM to gain too much weight too fast and she can rarely endure the w/ds, which make her feel like an out-of-control crazy lady. So she's stuck.

For SWIM, it's all about balance. Work comes first, then alone time, and then "fun" time, which consists of me going out with friends, being social, etc. Making To-Do lists is a lifesaver and helps keep SWIM on track and lowers stress.

[beemac]

but finds that she's actually much "happier" without them (AFTER the withdrawal period of course). They make her feel dull and emotionless, but quitting causes SWIM to gain too much weight too fast and she can rarely endure the w/ds, which make her feel like an out-of-control crazy lady. So she's stuck.

For SWIM, it's all about balance. Work comes first, then alone time, and then "fun" time, which consists of me going out with friends, being social, etc. Making To-Do lists is a lifesaver and helps keep SWIM on track and lowers stress.
Your bit about feeling emotionless and dull swim can completely agree with. Its a very strange feeling and only seems to be present after being on prozac for 4 weeks+. Whenever swim gets prescribed them, he takes them for 4 weeks, gets to this point and then has to stop taking them as it actually makes things worse.

Swims doctor is useless though - been on a 12 week waiting list for councelling twice this year, which has not materialised and he refuses to prescribe or consider and other kind of treatment, cbt etc.

Swim has also found recently that he feels within himself a very strong link between his depression, anxiety problems and his insomnia. Thankfully swims self confidence issues have been sorted :) Hopefully get the rest of it sorted at some point in the future, swim just needs to keep focussed and look forward and be as positive as possible.

Excuse the rambling here, a little under the influence, hope I've made sense. :)

Swim always used to have a really nice doctor but he has since retired - do other swimmers think perhaps swim should try and change doctors for someone who might be a little more proactive and understanding?