Does Anyone Believe in Managing Instead of Abolishing?

[TheBlackPope]

I know that AA believe that "once an addict, always an addict," but I've seen plenty of people who have kicked the habit for a while and then got into it slowly and didn't let it control them, or just switched drugs and kept it under control.

Is this an accepted school of thought at all? Or do scientist tend to side w/ AA and the common accepted thought processes?

[23smooches]

I personally think that an addictive personality will simply find new things to devote their time, money and life to. Such as TV or even internet if not drugs. I dont think its possible to have control over your addiction or substance. When you subjugate your mind and body to a substance, it has control over you physically, as well as metally in some cases. Ive heard plenty of meth-heads say that they werent addicted and they could stop whenever they wanted. In fact I have heard the same about cigarettes and alchohol, and just about every substance. If you dont need it, why are you using it in the first place? If youve overcome an addiction with a particular substance, but you go back to it, thinking you have control over it, your still addicted and you are lying to yourself. If you are not comfortable in your own skin while sober, you need to take a breather from all drugs including alchohol and nicotine, and sort your problems out. No organization will ever help you overcome your addiction, they are only there to assist. You are ultimately responsible for your mind and you have the power to live without depending on plants. Addiction stems from deep within your sub-consciousness. Its hard to overcome, but it can be done. I myself come from a long line of addictive personalities, and it is not so much genetic as it is inherited through observations of the behaviour of your peers and parents.
my 2cents

[JaWill88]

yeah swim bought into AA/NA for a while but woke up one day and realized its a bunch of crap that controls your life just as much as drug/alcohol addiction. anyways swim used to use heroin intravenously everyday at least three times a day, sometimes a gram or more in a shot (black tar). and also shoot coke anytime swim had any extra $ or other people had it so swim shot coke or smoked crack almost every day as well. swim has been using drugs for maybe 5 or 6 years. this terrible habbit ended 1 year ago. swim got on suboxone but for a while continued to use heroin and cocaine but not quite as frequently (maybe a couple times a week) and was attending meetings. its funny because as soon as swim stopped attending meetings and moved on with his life, he started to stay clean a little more and a little more as time went on. now swim lifts weights about 5 times a week, skateboards, and just hangs out with friends. things swim never did with a habbit. once an addict, always an addict? bullshit. thats a terribly negative way of thinking. and going to meetings for life? come on... thats also very negative. people just have to grow out of their addiction and find things they like just as much as getting high. to this day swim gets high every once in a while. swim did a shot of heroin maybe like a month ago. it felt good, but whatever, it wasnt a big deal. swim even did a shot of coke like an hour ago, bought a half gram. swim did one damn shot and lost the bag and needle, then found the coke but not the needle, and decided to go home because he had another needle there... and guess what?? the coke was gone! lol it was ridiculous. but anyways 2 minutes later swim didn't give a shit and here he is now typing this. btw swim hadnt done coke in a while either. sorry for going on and on but this topic really hits a spot for him and is glad swiy brought it up. point of all this? lots of people gain control of their lives again and continue to use sometimes. but in this day and age is this an accepted way of being? hell no. try going to outpatient treatment and tell them that! or a meeting! they will only say negative things and you will be fucked for life. well FUCK THAT!

[DMBRaven]

I can understand both arguments discussed here. I'm a little curious however, what kind of step should be taken if someone becomes addicted to a prescribed medication that is needed. I guess my question is, is it possible for that person to return to the original prescribed dosage without feeling the urge to "just take one extra pill" all the time? Will that thought and "need for just a little more" ever completely leave a person's mind if they are prescribed to take it daily?

[JaWill88]

Originally Posted by DMBRaven

I can understand both arguments discussed here. I'm a little curious however, what kind of step should be taken if someone becomes addicted to a prescribed medication that is needed. I guess my question is, is it possible for that person to return to the original prescribed dosage without feeling the urge to "just take one extra pill" all the time? Will that thought and "need for just a little more" ever completely leave a person's mind if they are prescribed to take it daily?

eventually, in time. swiy just has to move on in life to other things. like said above, find something/someone that swiy likes just as much as getting high. the main thing is finding something to fill the void. for swim, this has been weightlifting. its not just something swim does, its a lifestyle. swims days revolve around lifting weights. swim has to plan his meals, workouts, all kinds of stuff. eat the right foods and stuff. it has made swim so much healthier physically and mentaly which is extremely important. swiy has to leave addiction behind and fill the void with a new lifestyle before swiy can go back to what should have been. swim is perscribed to suboxone and wasnt doing anything to change his lifestyle. swim was at 32mg and then started to taper. as swim tapered he kept taking the same amount, sometimes more. but now that swim has done things to change his lifestyle, he has gone down to 8mg and doesn't feel the need to take more. why? becuase he doesn't care about that specific feeling anymore.

[DMBRaven]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

eventually, in time. swiy just has to move on in life to other things. like said above, find something/someone that swiy likes just as much as getting high. the main thing is finding something to fill the void. for swim, this has been weightlifting. its not just something swim does, its a lifestyle. swims days revolve around lifting weights. swim has to plan his meals, workouts, all kinds of stuff. eat the right foods and stuff. it has made swim so much healthier physically and mentaly which is extremely important. swiy has to leave addiction behind and fill the void with a new lifestyle before swiy can go back to what should have been. swim is perscribed to suboxone and wasnt doing anything to change his lifestyle. swim was at 32mg and then started to taper. as swim tapered he kept taking the same amount, sometimes more. but now that swim has done things to change his lifestyle, he has gone down to 8mg and doesn't feel the need to take more. why? becuase he doesn't care about that specific feeling anymore.

Thanks for the reply. It really makes a lot of sense and is very helpful. Swim isn't, I guess you could say, "a full-blown" addict, but they have been misusing their adderall rx by taking more in a day then is prescribed which causes them to run out early. This leads to not having any for 2 weeks causing severe depression, lethargy, just feeling blah.... until they can get the next rx filled. it's a vicious vicious cycle to say the least. Swim just wants to go back to the day when they were first prescribed the drug and only needed as it was prescribed....without feeling like they need to take more in order for it to work. The reason that swim began to increase their dosage in the first place was because they grew a tolerance for the prescribed dosage (never asked the Dr if uping the dose was a possible idea because swim attends college and they are VERY hesitant about handing out adderall rx and swim thinks that it is probably permanently implanted in the back of their minds that all college kids just want adderall as a study aid....even though swim actually NEEDS it)

[Fight Club]

NIK thinks that addiction (at any level) is just a form of obsessive / compulsive behavior, albeit once that involves a self-destructive compulsion. Running, weight lifting, reading, cycling are just more virtuous and healthy compulsions. NIK believes that getting healthy involves working on both sides; (finding a way to avoid obsession and the corresponding triggers for compulsive behavior along with finding healthier "compulsions" while you are working on the psychological stuff).

FWIW, NIK finds that attending meetings, hanging with sober folk, and working the steps helps him "quiet" his obsession with cocaine.

FC

[DMBRaven]

Originally Posted by Fight Club

NIK thinks that addiction (at any level) is just a form of obsessive / compulsive behavior, albeit once that involves a self-destructive compulsion. Running, weight lifting, reading, cycling are just more virtuous and healthy compulsions. NIK believes that getting healthy involves working on both sides; (finding a way to avoid obsession and the corresponding triggers for compulsive behavior along with finding healthier "compulsions" while you are working on the psychological stuff).

FWIW, NIK finds that attending meetings, hanging with sober folk, and working the steps helps him "quiet" his obsession with cocaine.

FC

I see what you mean. However, swim can't concentrate long enough to engage in any of the activities that was mentioned (reading, running, anything really) unless swim takes their ADD meds. Swim has tried using herbal supplements like Ginkgo Biloba as an alternative, but it really doesn't help.

[JaWill88]

Originally Posted by Fight Club

NIK thinks that addiction (at any level) is just a form of obsessive / compulsive behavior, albeit once that involves a self-destructive compulsion. Running, weight lifting, reading, cycling are just more virtuous and healthy compulsions. NIK believes that getting healthy involves working on both sides; (finding a way to avoid obsession and the corresponding triggers for compulsive behavior along with finding healthier "compulsions" while you are working on the psychological stuff).

FWIW, NIK finds that attending meetings, hanging with sober folk, and working the steps helps him "quiet" his obsession with cocaine.

FC

swim completely 100% agrees that addiction at any level no matter how bad, is basically an obsessive compulsive disorder. one just has to learn other ways of life.

[JaWill88]

Originally Posted by DMBRaven

Thanks for the reply. It really makes a lot of sense and is very helpful. Swim isn't, I guess you could say, "a full-blown" addict, but they have been misusing their adderall rx by taking more in a day then is prescribed which causes them to run out early. This leads to not having any for 2 weeks causing severe depression, lethargy, just feeling blah.... until they can get the next rx filled. it's a vicious vicious cycle to say the least. Swim just wants to go back to the day when they were first prescribed the drug and only needed as it was prescribed....without feeling like they need to take more in order for it to work. The reason that swim began to increase their dosage in the first place was because they grew a tolerance for the prescribed dosage (never asked the Dr if uping the dose was a possible idea because swim attends college and they are VERY hesitant about handing out adderall rx and swim thinks that it is probably permanently implanted in the back of their minds that all college kids just want adderall as a study aid....even though swim actually NEEDS it)

yes when swim first got on suboxone (buprenorphine) he actually got kind of high on it. it was awesome. but swim grew tolerant and no matter how much swim took he could never achieve that feeling again (it has ceiling effect). anyways swim went through this same vicious cycle every month. and his was even worse in a certain way because buprenorphine is an opioid and they are physically addicting. swim would sell a bunch of his pills or take more than was supposed to and never have enough for the month. the longest he ever had them for was like 3 weeks at a time. so every month swim would feel horrible withdrawal and often do heroin to get rid of it and that defeats the purpose of being on suboxone. so swim knows how swiy feels. swiy will get through this if swiy really wants to.

[cashflow]

I believe that you can usesubstances without becoming addicted, it's all in your mind, can't think of any other way to put it. I personally believe the ones who have come to addiction and cant stop are weak minded. Sure there may be chemical imbalances but it's your body, you are controling it, a drug that is no longer or close to no longer in your system isn't making your descisions, you are. Swim experiments with different substances frequently and understands why someone may become addicted but doesn't unerstand how they "can't" stop. If you really don't have that much willpower yourself, instead of looking online to find out how to rid yourself of an addiction tell someone you know that cares for you(if theres none left, befriend someone) have them make sure you don't use. Stay away from the crowd that uses, donate your drug money so you have nothing to buy it with and if it comes down to it, have someone lock you in a room and feed you for a while until you come to your senses.

So basically swim manages so it is possible, whether you want to call swim an addict or not is up to you however swim does not fit the definition of an addict and can stop whenever/whatever and has done this successfully for many substances.

If you have trouble managing instead of abolishing, try to spread out the consumption. Ex. instead of tweaking a full week then stopping for a few months, tweek on the weekend like once a month, that way you won't become as reliant on it.

[Heavy_Z]

SWIM has found that his personality is absolutely addictive. SWIM has never felt addicted to a drug other than Meth, but I kicked that habit. SWIM views drugs as nothing more than a tool. Just like a chainsaw, drugs can help you or they can kill you. Its up to you to treat them and yourself with respect. SWIM views the "once an addict always an addict" mentality as weakness. SWIM sees it as a last alternative if you cannot get control of your life any other way. That said it is perfectly acceptable to go that route if you must. SWIM finds it to be an absolute surrender of control where one hides from there problems rather than face them.

SWIMs approach to drug use is to manage it. If SWIM finds himself using something to the point where the substance is having a detrimental effect on SWIMs wellbeing then SWIM will quit using that drug for awhile. This is mainly to get rid of tolerance and reassess SWIMS goals and current condition. The only drug SWIM has outright walked away from is Meth, but SWIM could use it again without being an addict again. Its just SWIM sees little point in using Meth if SWIM is not going to use it in large amounts. SWIM sees it as a useless drug in small amounts.

[Fight Club]

Originally Posted by cashflow

I believe that you can usesubstances without becoming addicted, it's all in your mind, can't think of any other way to put it. I personally believe the ones who have come to addiction and cant stop are weak minded. Sure there may be chemical imbalances but it's your body, you are controling it, a drug that is no longer or close to no longer in your system isn't making your descisions, you are. Swim experiments with different substances frequently and understands why someone may become addicted but doesn't unerstand how they "can't" stop. If you really don't have that much willpower yourself, instead of looking online to find out how to rid yourself of an addiction tell someone you know that cares for you(if theres none left, befriend someone) have them make sure you don't use. Stay away from the crowd that uses, donate your drug money so you have nothing to buy it with and if it comes down to it, have someone lock you in a room and feed you for a while until you come to your senses.



So basically swim manages so it is possible, whether you want to call swim an addict or not is up to you however swim does not fit the definition of an addict and can stop whenever/whatever and has done this successfully for many substances.

If you have trouble managing instead of abolishing, try to spread out the consumption. Ex. instead of tweaking a full week then stopping for a few months, tweek on the weekend like once a month, that way you won't become as reliant on it.

^^^^^^

Spoken like a true . . . 18 year old. Check in with me in 25 years and let me know how that's workin' out for ya.

FC

[JaWill88]

Originally Posted by Fight Club

^^^^^^

Spoken like a true . . . 18 year old. Check in with me in 25 years and let me know how that's workin' out for ya.

FC

AGREED... lol. swim is only 19 but still swim totally understands that was quite rediculous. swim did feel that way when he was like 14 though. that was when swim was fairly new to drugs, swicashflow probably hasn't been using for very long. btw swim not trying to offend CF.

[machine_elf]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

swim completely 100% agrees that addiction at any level no matter how bad, is basically an obsessive compulsive disorder. one just has to learn other ways of life.

How can you possibly say this? SWIM has OCD and has never had problems with drug addiction. I also find that this thread has been over simplified. Drug addiction stems from many factors including mental instability, social injustice and genetic predisposition (with regards to prominant neurotransmitters in the users brain). Simply passing it off (and ocd for that matter) as an avoidable habit is naive and massively incorrect.