What to do when others drug users intelligence is truely depressing?

geezaman · #1 06-11-2007, 22:47

Without being big headed, (what a great start to potential big headedness) as SWIM knows in some areas his own intelligence is very lacking. What are responsible drug users meant to do when they find themselves trying to help others who it seems missed out on their full portion of intelligence?

We are not talking drug safety warden with whistle and hat, warning stoner's that lighters may get hot, but a normal reasonably intelligent drug user who occasionally gets asked for advice.

SWIM has read threads on here before where it seemed to be happening, and it has happened to SWIM on here and in real life. SWIMs sure other members here must have experienced it also.

Any good solutions?
percevearence?
abandonment?
a loud noise to scare the high horse from under SWIM?
SWIYs suggestions please

ReAlitY-HoLds-NonE · #2 06-11-2007, 23:16

Depends highly on the person... SWIM went through a bit to much acid a bit to often, and didnt realize what it was doing to him (Yes, agreed there may not be any dangers for some people... but it was affecting SWIM)... and the only thing SWIM's friends could do to stop was to stand up to his dealer and tell him that he needs to stop selling it to SWIM... especially as he was picking up for solo trips...
SWIM was very, very p*ssed off, needless to say, but now can see what he must have been like looking back on it, and much prefers it now when he trips in a group.
-They knew SWIM wouldnt have stopped no-matter how much they nagged or whined, so they cut off his source at the time. (probably wouldnt recommend this though)

Another story is about SWIM's sister and friend, who both became pill-wh*res at diffirent times over the last few years. For SWIM's sister it was simply a case of her boyfriend ending it with her, and for SWIM's friend it was simply a matter of critisizing him (as said in the film revolver- "nothing hurts more than humiliation and a little money loss")...

Abondonment would only work in a situation where an individual is dependant on SWIM for something, be it material or imaterial, it worked for SWIM's sister...
Percerverance only works with people who see themselves as weak in their drug usage anyway (as the percerverance that SWIM would use would decay and erode any confidence and increase that doubt) -didnt work for SWIM...

Generally critisizing in a friendly way will work with time...

But the idea of the load noise.. theres a good one -oversmoke someone till they get sick or force a bad trip upon someone (Very Very Harsh!! -would only ever do it as a last resort... this is just, WRONG!)

...it is, however, all down to the individual coming to a realization in their own time, which unfortunantly doesnt always happen... only interfer if it affects other people, because if it isnt affecting anyone around that person, they arent getting any negative affects, so are all cool.. for now..

El Calico Loco · #3 09-11-2007, 06:37

Love, reason, and - most of all - patience. Think like you're dealing with a small child.

That said, no force on Earth or in Heaven can save a fool from himself.

ECL

**MrG** · #4 09-11-2007, 07:19

Nah, I'm going for the loud noise there GM - LOL.

Seriously though, if you can't get through to some people, just leave 'em to Darwin.

JaWill88 · #5 09-11-2007, 08:16

swim is in outpatient treatment and swim went to talk to his counselors today. swim went to detox on halloween to get off suboxone. swim was at highest dose possible (32mg). swim feels like shit right now but ate some clonazepam a while ago and is a little drowsy right now.. anyways one of swims counselors was trying to tell swim how suboxone and subutex are quite different from one another and one is way harder to get off of then the other. anyone on either of these medications knows buprenorphine is the only drug that gets in the blood if taken correctly. when taken correctly the naloxone in suboxone is inefective and very trace amounts possibly get in but is so small it couldnt have an effect. but swims counselor got all pissy and said how she went to a class and they are chemically different from one another and suboxone is really hard to get off while subutex has no withdrawal what so ever. this is the most retarded thing swim ever heard. its annoying when swim knows so much more then the chemical dependency counselors and swim knows way way way more about every single drug then them and they try and tell swim he doesnt know what hes talking about. sorry swim is just rambling but is out of it right now from that clonazepaml. anyways the point is swim knows way more then these stupid counselors and they are trying to tell swim what he should do. how can they if they don't know anything?!?!?!?!!!! sorry swim is just pissed. oh yeah she also said how buprenorphine isnt actually an opioid it just acts like one and there is no such thing as withdrawal from buprenorphine. well swim is living proof that there is withdrawal from buprenorphine cause swim has been vomiting and shitting out his insides. his muscles ache. his joints hurt. his stomach feels like it churning. hes hot and cold at the same time. he has to change his clothes every hour cause they are drenched in sweat. he is hungy but he cant eat. he is tired but he cant sleep. and swim knows he doesnt have a fucking flu. sound like withdrawal to me. is it just swim and is swim really wrong about all of this, or are his counselors just fucking retarded? any insight on this from any swiys?

Lettish · #6 09-11-2007, 09:32

My friend is new to the drug scene and is a novice/amateur user. However, since browsing DF, he has learned a lot, and is really taking in as much as knowledge and advice as possible. The more he knows, the safer he will be. He notices very often how people refer to specific measurements of dosage (mg), which fascinates him. He hopes eventually he will pick this up and be able to use it wisely.

My friend's friends, who are more experienced and older than him, offer great advice. Whenever he asks what might seem like a silly question, they have no problem in answering honestly. This is always good to have, he feels.

In conclusion, my friend wants to say, that everyone starts somewhere, and naturally learns more as time goes on. So, be gentle on those that aren't as drug-knowledged as Swiy, and help them learn.

old hippie 56 · #7 09-11-2007, 13:51

The wise ones say patience is a virtue.
But after the patience has wore thin, take MrG advice and leave them to Darwin.

BobTheGreat · #8 16-11-2007, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrG

Seriously though, if you can't get through to some people, just leave 'em to Darwin.

BINGO! For swim some will listen and keep an open mind. Others will ignore so dont waste swiy breath on these ppl. Some will also take advice wrong so be catious of an info given. For example, Swim told his friend about 5htp to help with the aftermath of rolling. He took it to the exteme and thought he could roll as often as he wanted if he took 5htp. This came up on the ride back from a rave last weekend. Swim corrected him but who knows if he will follow the advice. Swim's guess is no but what can one do. It's his life not swims.

Mint boi · #9 17-11-2007, 02:23

My Ferret knows someone who was planning on taking ecstasy, in a convo it came up that this guy thought that acid and ecstasy were the same thing... my ferret almost cried

El Calico Loco · #10 17-11-2007, 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

BINGO! For swim some will listen and keep an open mind. Others will ignore so dont waste swiy breath on these ppl.

True. There is a world of difference between naive and willful ignorance. The former is forgivable. Once ignorance has been reinforced into obstinance by arrogance, however...fuck 'em.

ECL

fnord · #11 17-11-2007, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaWill88

swim is in outpatient treatment and swim went to talk to his counselors today. swim went to detox on halloween to get off suboxone. swim was at highest dose possible (32mg). swim feels like shit right now but ate some clonazepam a while ago and is a little drowsy right now.. anyways one of swims counselors was trying to tell swim how suboxone and subutex are quite different from one another and one is way harder to get off of then the other. anyone on either of these medications knows buprenorphine is the only drug that gets in the blood if taken correctly. when taken correctly the naloxone in suboxone is inefective and very trace amounts possibly get in but is so small it couldnt have an effect. but swims counselor got all pissy and said how she went to a class and they are chemically different from one another and suboxone is really hard to get off while subutex has no withdrawal what so ever. this is the most retarded thing swim ever heard. its annoying when swim knows so much more then the chemical dependency counselors and swim knows way way way more about every single drug then them and they try and tell swim he doesnt know what hes talking about. sorry swim is just rambling but is out of it right now from that clonazepaml. anyways the point is swim knows way more then these stupid counselors and they are trying to tell swim what he should do. how can they if they don't know anything?!?!?!?!!!! sorry swim is just pissed. oh yeah she also said how buprenorphine isnt actually an opioid it just acts like one and there is no such thing as withdrawal from buprenorphine. well swim is living proof that there is withdrawal from buprenorphine cause swim has been vomiting and shitting out his insides. his muscles ache. his joints hurt. his stomach feels like it churning. hes hot and cold at the same time. he has to change his clothes every hour cause they are drenched in sweat. he is hungy but he cant eat. he is tired but he cant sleep. and swim knows he doesnt have a fucking flu. sound like withdrawal to me. is it just swim and is swim really wrong about all of this, or are his counselors just fucking retarded? any insight on this from any swiys?

Buprenorphine is a partial opiate agonist that has a high affinity to binding to the receptor site. Narcan or naloxon can't knock it off the receptor site most of the time thats why in buprenorphine overdoses they use a respritory stimulant instead. Buprenorphine stimulates the opiate receptor site but dosen't give the full effects thats why it's a partial agonist as opposed to a full one (like methadone or heroin). SWIM came off of 24 mg sub. and felt like shit not as bad as methadone or heroin but it still sucks. SWIM feels the same way sometimes SWIM knows more about my problems than those who are treating me. Suboxone has been known about for a while but it's use for treatment of opiate addiction was just recently approved. even though SWIM knows of detoxes that have been using it for that purpose for years because it works.

beentheredonethatagain · #12 17-11-2007, 05:59

I guess when something someone is planning to put into there system is going to possibly put them at risk of serious consequences, a helpful thing to do is try to explain in a clear and relaxed tone of the pending dangers.

You may have to talk to them on a level that puts both of you on a level plateau, should it become necessary.

Thinking about my history and the people who guided me in the world of intoxicants, most were nice and helpful, never imposing there knowledge as the end all to be all.

Treating a person's desire to try a new substance or method of administration with respect , will usually get their ear.

Pressure to heed warning and abandon the thought , will be futile.

entheogensmurf · #13 17-11-2007, 08:06

SWIY, could you please provide some examples of advice questions that have been presented?

I see no high horse mentality in SWIY's post.

geezaman · #14 19-11-2007, 00:57

SWIM cant think of any that exactly match his first post, but, examples that would fall in that area would be (the following are from various people SWIM speaks with)

" i felt ill so took lots of lemsip (cough and cold medicine available without prescription in all chemists in UK) will i be sick if i go out and get hammered" (excessively drunk) for that SWIM web searched lemsips ingredients, and suggested if they were ill as it was they probably shouldn't be getting hammered anyway, but as far as SWIM could tell a few drinks should be fine. the asker wanted an answer, but from SWIMs knowledge would probably get hammered whatever he said.

SWIM was doing nitrous with someone who was new to it, after all the whippets had gone, the noob started trying to re-crack them, SWIM explained if there was a hole in the end they were empty, and that they went from liquid to gas etc, SWIM came back a while later to find the guy frantically trying to crack more.

a friend of SWIMs inquired about mdma safety etc intending to try it, SWIM told the person the best of his knowledge and gave her some sites to read further, the week after, one of her friends while mildly drunk took some knowing nothing about it, freaked out, the person SWIM had informed allowed her friend to drink 1 liter of water in 5 mins... the girl on mdma had not been dancing, or doing anything to sweat, the "informed" girl then 10 mins later encouraged the girl on mdma to drink another pint of water as she had drunk the first liter so quickly.

The first and third included the same person, as SWIYs may see these annoyances range from inconsequential, to pretty damn serious. SWIM has good knowledge, and expresses himself as well as most people, he is considered by all who know him and know he does drugs as responsible. There have been many other similar things, these being the first to spring to mind. In the third incident SWIM was next door asleep, but the informed girl said she couldn't be bothered to try and get SWIM up.