extremely short-lived effects?

[staples]

A friend of mine wanted to try Ritallin/Concerta for getting work done. SWIM is prescribed to both of these, 10 mg Ritallin and 54 mg Concerta.

This friend has some weird things that I'm not really sure I understand. Some general information that may reveal something important to someone more knowledgeable than me:

• He's in very good shape, some would say he over-trains.
• He generally eats very healthy.
• He also eats as if he has a tapeworm, and doesn't gain any weight. I think this could be due to how much he exercises? but it has raised enough concern that he plans to visit a doctor about it.
• He is a light-weight when it comes to alcohol, and he doesn't sober up unusually fast, so I gather that he has a somewhat normal metabolism.

Ok, so SWIM figured 10 mg would probably affect him plenty. He took 10mg and an hour or so later reported feeling little to no effect at all. SWIM suggested trying another 15mg at that point, but as it turned out, his time constrains would've meant that it'd waste the time on the drug -- so he ended up taking 20 mg about 2 hours later. He reported feeling focused
for about 20-30 minutes maybe, but then it wore off.

Thinking that maybe he has a naturally high tolerance, as SWIM's doctor told SWIM that dosage of ritallin doesn't very much seem to be determined by body weight, SWIM suggested the 54 mg concerta.

At this point it was too late to take concerta and expect to sleep, so my friend took the concerta at around 10am. He called SWIM at around 11 or so to report that he didn't notice any effects. He also reported that he had not eaten anything before taking the concerta, but he had eaten a lot of chili afterwards. At noon my friend entered a class for a test, and all of a sudden noticed what he described as being like 'overdosing on caffeine' (note: he has never actually overdosed on caffeine to know exactly what that's like). He found his leg shaking uncontrollably and he experienced huge difficulties in concentrating.

This only lasted for 1.5-2 hours or so. Unfortunately, he did awful on the test (2/10), even though he felt pretty much ready for it the day before. He also revealed at this point that he had gotten 2 hours of sleep the night before (not because he couldn't due to the ritallin, but because he had to finish homework for an early, difficult class), I'm not sure if this is important, but it could otherwise explain the poor test performance.

At 4:45pm (almost 7 hours after taking concerta), he didn't report feeling any effects form the time-release mechanism.

From what I understand, methylphenidate is an amphetamine and a meth molecule. The main purpose of the meth molecule is, among other things, to extend the effects of the amphetamine to last for 4-6 hours, right?

It sounds to me like either the meth molecule isn't working right in his system for some reason (? is this common or even possible?) and/or the time-release mechanism disolved and all of the drug was issued into his system upon ingestion (so, really 108 mg?).

Any ideas?
Might adderall work better for him? or does this indicate that he should NOT try adderall? (since I think it has the same mechanism, with the meth molecule?)

[Lehendakari]

Originally Posted by staples

Ok, so SWIM figured 10 mg would probably affect him plenty. He took 10mg and an hour or so later reported feeling little to no effect at all. SWIM suggested trying another 15mg at that point, but as it turned out, his time constrains would've meant that it'd waste the time on the drug -- so he ended up taking 20 mg about 2 hours later. He reported feeling focused
for about 20-30 minutes maybe, but then it wore off.?)

Some people are not very sensible to ritalin effects, and other people find it better than coke or meth. SWIM always gets something with ritalin with as little as 10 mg IR. He even gets a short rush of euphoria. The first time he tried 20 mg had a great night. Most people find ritalin weak, and 20 mg is not a high dose anyway. Redosing on ritalin also seems to be a bad idea, as only side effects increase. SWIM always takes his dose at once, or spared 10 min or less.

At this point it was too late to take concerta and expect to sleep, so my friend took the concerta at around 10am. He called SWIM at around 11 or so to report that he didn't notice any effects. He also reported that he had not eaten anything before taking the concerta, but he had eaten a lot of chili afterwards. At noon my friend entered a class for a test, and all of a sudden noticed what he described as being like 'overdosing on caffeine' (note: he has never actually overdosed on caffeine to know exactly what that's like). He found his leg shaking uncontrollably and he experienced huge difficulties in concentrating.


This only lasted for 1.5-2 hours or so. Unfortunately, he did awful on the test (2/10), even though he felt pretty much ready for it the day before. He also revealed at this point that he had gotten 2 hours of sleep the night before (not because he couldn't due to the ritallin, but because he had to finish homework for an early, difficult class), I'm not sure if this is important, but it could otherwise explain the poor test performance.

At 4:45pm (almost 7 hours after taking concerta), he didn't report feeling any effects form the time-release mechanism.

Seems like ritalin overdose. Your friend probably failed the exam cause of this. Concerta is not all time release. There is a small amount delivered to your system instantly. Shaking, panic, confusion and lack of concetration are typical side effects from DRI's overdose.

From what I understand, methylphenidate is an amphetamine and a meth molecule. The main purpose of the meth molecule is, among other things, to extend the effects of the amphetamine to last for 4-6 hours, right??)

That's not right. Methamphetamine is amphetamine with a methyl group which makes it bind with higher affinity and also gets metabolized slower. Methylphenidate is related to amphetamine, but it's too different to be called an amphetamine. It has his own chemical properties. Without the methyl group would probably be non psychoactive.

It sounds to me like either the meth molecule isn't working right in his system for some reason (? is this common or even possible?) and/or the time-release mechanism disolved and all of the drug was issued into his system upon ingestion (so, really 108 mg?).?)

Not likely, 108 mg instantly released would have had dramatic consequences.

Any ideas?
Might adderall work better for him? or does this indicate that he should NOT try adderall? (since I think it has the same mechanism, with the meth molecule?)

Adderall is plain amphetamine salts, mixture of the levo and dextro isomers with no methyl group. People tend to consider it stronger than ritalin and better. Other prefer ritalin. UTSE regarding comparision between the two.

[staples]

Originally Posted by Lehendakari

Some people are not very sensible to ritalin effects, and other people find it better than coke or meth. SWIM always gets something with ritalin with as little as 10 mg IR. He even gets a short rush of euphoria. The first time he tried 20 mg had a great night. Most people find ritalin weak, and 20 mg is not a high dose anyway. Redosing on ritalin also seems to be a bad idea, as only side effects increase. SWIM always takes his dose at once, or spared 10 min or less.

So, are you saying that he IS being affected, the 20-30 minutes he indicates may just have been the feeling of euphoria, and the actual effects he just doesn't notice very well?
As for redosing, he didn't have side-effects on 10 mg, nor after taking 20 mg 4ish hours later... Also SWIM, being prescribed to ritalin/concerta, takes ritalin to redose and extend the length of effects from the concerta, as directed by SWIM's doctor... so I'm not sure if this is relevant to my friend?

Originally Posted by Lehendakari

Seems like ritalin overdose. Your friend probably failed the exam cause of this. Concerta is not all time release. There is a small amount delivered to your system instantly. Shaking, panic, confusion and lack of concetration are typical side effects from DRI's overdose.

So, considering the lack of effects from 20ish mg (he also took 30 yesterday evening and didn't experience anything either), would it be a lost cause to try some dosage in between 30 and 60?

I understand that some of the drug is delivered instantly, but isn't the idea that the same amount is delivered again after the first amount's effects should be wearing off? Why did he not experience these OD symptoms later in the day?

Originally Posted by Lehendakari

That's not right. Methamphetamine is amphetamine with a methyl group which makes it bind with higher affinity and also gets metabolized slower. Methylphenidate is related to amphetamine, but it's too different to be called an amphetamine. It has his own chemical properties. Without the methyl group would probably be non psychoactive.

Ok, my bad. But th methyl group is responsible for making sure it is metabolized slower -- so why is it coming and going so quickly?

Originally Posted by Lehendakari

Adderall is plain amphetamine salts, mixture of the levo and dextro isomers with no methyl group. People tend to consider it stronger than ritalin and better. Other prefer ritalin. UTSE regarding comparision between the two.

Sorry, I searched through the forums, but I can't quite figure it out from context... UTSE?

As someone who's been prescrbied to adderall, and then ritallin, I 'd say I liked adderall a lot better as well. I would think that, provided it works for my friend, 5-10 mg of adderall should suffice. So from what I understand from you, there's no indication of how adderall will work given his ritalin experience.