Addicted to diazepam, need help

[Nargyle]

Swim has been taking diazepam for about a year now and in the last 4 months he increased his dose up to 30mg per day, the problem is his doctor gave him a prescription because swim lied to him about having panic attacks, now swim is stuck with a renewable diazepam prescription of three 10mg pills per day and he wants to stop taking them. However he is also worried about the withdrawal symptoms, which he has heard can be quite bad with benzos.
Thanks for any help you could give swim!

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Interesting swim actually has panic attacks but his doctors won't give him any refills on any type of benzodiazepine.This is because they now know of swims history.Swim does not know a huge amount about benzo addiction however he does know it can be dangerous and it might be best for swiy to seek medical attention when swiy plans to taper off.

[oxalot]

It is sometimes quite impossible to curb ones appetite for any addictive substance by oneself. However if SWIY is serious and can't afford traditional recovery methods, SWIY should slowly decrease amount over about a 4 week period. Decrease 25% of total daily intake for one week. Week 2 decrease 50%, week 3 75%, and over last week decrease daily until you can come off completely. There is a danger of siezures with withdrawal from benzos. The risk is greater ,obviously with larger daily usage. SWIY is not so far gone as to give it up now. Go slowly. Get a friend to help you if you trust anyone to keep your secret. (If that is the problem) Give them the pills and let them help SWIY do the decrease and regulate SWIY if it is hard for SWIY. As withany advise that is not professional if there are any problems, call a hospital or 911 immediately. Don't let something bad happen. Millions go through this process, there should be no shame to an addiction. It happens to the best of us. It is the nature of the beast.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

It is sometimes quite impossible to curb ones appetite for any addictive substance by oneself. However if SWIY is serious and can't afford traditional recovery methods, SWIY should slowly decrease amount over about a 4 week period. Decrease 25% of total daily intake for one week. Week 2 decrease 50%, week 3 75%, and over last week decrease daily until you can come off completely. There is a danger of siezures with withdrawal from benzos. The risk is greater ,obviously with larger daily usage. SWIY is not so far gone as to give it up now. Go slowly. Get a friend to help you if you trust anyone to keep your secret. (If that is the problem) Give them the pills and let them help SWIY do the decrease and regulate SWIY if it is hard for SWIY. As withany advise that is not professional if there are any problems, call a hospital or 911 immediately. Don't let something bad happen. Millions go through this process, there should be no shame to an addiction. It happens to the best of us. It is the nature of the beast.

It might be possible to curb ones appetite for some addictive substances,namely those that are merely psychologically addictive.However benzodiazipenes are not something that should be taken lightly.You might be able to quit them by ones self if you were only on them for a short time but it's not a risk worth taking.Yes withdrawal from these drugs can kill.

[Nargyle]

Swim thinks he will try tampering off gradually by himself, this week he will just take 20mg instead of 30mg, next week try with 10mg, the following 5mg, then 2.5mg and after that stop taking them at all.
Does this sound like a good strategy to swiy?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim isn't the expert but it sounds like a decent theory.Then again swim tried something similar with methadone and it didn't quite work as he planned.Hopefully this will work for swiy but if it gets too much to handle and it simply doesn't work please see a doctor!

[Micklemouse]

From The Ashton Manual. I must stress that this regime is for Diazepam (Valium) only - The Ashton Manual contains regimes for other benzo's, all of which apart from Chlordiazepoxide (Librium) involve a switch to diazepam at some point.

Apologies for the format - it wouldn't let me copy the table! It is a slow withdrawal, but safe & effective if cravings acan be kept under control, & if the person involved is committed to seeing it through. It is recommended that it is done with some input from a medic - not only will this ensure that there is a steady supply of the right medication at the right doses for whatever stage the person withdrawing is at, it 'll also provide a bit of routine & support if the visits are weekly/fortnightly.

Key - Column 1 (green) = morning dose
- Column 2 (purple) = evening dose
- Column 3 (bold) = Total Daily Dose

By Stage 19, the person withdrawing is down to just one dose in the evening (morning dose = ------ = 0mg
Schedule 2. Simple withdrawal from diazepam (Valium) 40mg daily



Starting dosage diazepam 20mg 20mg 40mg

Stage 1 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 18mg 20mg38mg

Stage 2 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 18mg 18mg 36mg

Stage 3 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 16mg 18mg 34mg

Stage 4 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 16mg 16mg 32mg

Stage 5 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 14mg 16mg 30mg

Stage 6 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 14mg 14mg 28mg

Stage 7 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 12mg 14mg 26mg

Stage 8 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 12mg 12mg 24mg

Stage 9 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 10mg 12mg 22mg

Stage 10 (1-2 weeks) diazepam10mg10mg 20mg

Stage 11 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 8mg 10mg 18mg

Stage 12 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 8mg 8mg 16mg

Stage 13 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 6mg 8mg 14mg

Stage 14 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 5mg 8mg 13mg

Stage 15 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 4mg 8mg 12mg

Stage 16 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 3mg 8mg 11mg

Stage 17 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 2mg 8mg 10mg

Stage 18 (1-2 weeks) diazepam 1mg 8mg 9mg

Stage 19 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 8mg 8mg

Stage 20 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 7mg 7mg

Stage 21 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 6mg 6mg

Stage 22 (1-2 weeks) ---------------------5mg 5mg

Stage 23 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 4mg 4mg

Stage 24 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 3mg 3mg

Stage 25 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 2mg 2mg

Stage 26 (1-2 weeks) --------------------- 1mg 1mg


Schedule 2 Notes:
1)You could probably manage Stages 1-5 (or even Stages 1-10) in weekly intervals (but take 2 weeks between stages if you prefer).

2)The later stages are probably better taken in 2 week intervals.

3) When you get down to a dose of 5mg daily, you could begin to decrease in 0.5mg doses, but most people manage with 1mg reductions.

4) You will need to utilise a mixture of 10mg, 5mg, and 2mg diazepam tablets to obtain the required dosages. Halve the (scored) 2mg tablet to obtain 1mg doses.

5) If your starting dose is 20mg diazepam daily, you could begin at Stage 10, but in this case you could reduce by 1mg every 2 weeks.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim hopes swiy makes it through this process as easily as possible.It may not be that easy but hopefully with the help of a doctor with the tapering process it will be relatively pain free.Just don't give up!Swim hates seeing other people in pain.

[hh339]

SWiM quit cold turkey after quite some time. He took insane amounts of benzo's for a long period of time, and boy did he pay for that! The worst comedown he could have imagined, he was in physical pain for weeks. Not to mention the cravings that his mind had to deal with...

Just don't quit cold turkey if SWiY have been using for some time, please! Micklesmouse's post is very reasonable, go for something like that.

SWiNargyle: At least it is diazepam, alprazolam for instance would have been worse. Valium's are going to take a while to get out of SWiY's system compared to other benzo's, but will probably not be as hard to quit. At least the physical part. Good luck, I think SWiY will make it.

[Nargyle]

thanks for all the support and advice, swim will follow swiMiklemouse's advice and keep swiy posted about swim's progress.

[Micklemouse]

Please do. Run a search on The Ashton Manual with your favourite search engine too - it's a well written & interesting read. Unfortunately linking to it here cannot be done - it's easily found however!

Best of luck! Oh, it might be worth getting hold of a pill cutter for your monkey too - your doc or pharmacist should be able to help you out.

[radiometer]

I think that not allowing a link to Ashton's site is pushing the outside forum rule a bit far. I've linked to it several times with no one mentioning anything.

SWIM used a pill cutter to excellent effect when tapering from alprazolam.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

And a pill cutter is a wonderful little device that can serve other purpouses than just that.

[Micklemouse]

Radio', that site contains a Forum I'm afraid! Which is a shame so far as we're concerned, as it is an excellent site.

[radiometer]

And I see it just about as likely to "poach" members from here as would be the trombone players' forum I post on. No big deal, just my opinion.

[Micklemouse]

I agree Radio', but rules is rules until we hear otherwise (anal I know!). I'd've linked it meself if that rule were not in place.

Some other fantastic resources are now out of bounds due to this rule, at least one i can think of carries a link to pharma Sources.

Anyhoo, back on track...

[Harry]

Years ago, SWIM was severely dependant on the Benzos, and to fathom a day without was unheard of. The reason for their use and ultimate dependancy was initially extreme stress.

SWIM tried every possible thing to cut out the copious amounts that were being ingested, and found that the only thing that eventually worked was a regime of exercise, mixed with a slow withdrawal of use, and a combination of relaxation techniques. Things like warm baths before sleep, breathing exercises.

SWIM still has a cabinet full of Diazepam that has been there for years, and only ever rarely uses them now. The odd time to bring on sleep on a restless night, or infrequently to enhance a buzz in combo with something more preferred.

This may or may not help you, but it sure did for SWIM.

Good luck.

[toe]

And a pill cutter is a wonderful little device that can serve other purpouses than just that.

Coincidentally, an image (http://www.drugs-forum.com/photopost/data/500/Pill_cutter.jpg) of The Best Pill Cutter in the World was just approved for the gallery. I'm not sure how much variance there really is between them, but SWINargyle is going to be regularly trying attempt to evenly quarter (or worse) these pills, a little faith and a couple extra dollars/pounds/euros is probably worth the investment.

[Nargyle]

High everyone!, sorry for not reporting back earlier but now I'll let you know how swim is doing, he has achieved to go down to 5mg diazepam split into two 2.5mg doses (morning and evening) so he's had at least some success in tapering down his dose, what he wants to know now is if it would be possible to go cold turkey from now on, he tried it a couple of days but he got extremely anxious, however he thinks that a herbal tranquilizer could be substituted for the diazepam, what are swiy's thoughts on this? and more importantly what herbal tranquilizer does swiy think could be most useful? thanks a lot micklemouse, I really don't have enough word to say how grateful I am for your help and your advice about the ashton manual, this forum is really a lifesaver!!!

[MizzWhizz]

Hi Nargyle, well done on getting this far!

Swim quit benzo's earlier this year, also by herself and so can understand a bit what Swiy is going through. If Swiy is still taking one in the morning and one in the evening, it might be better for Swiy to start on one in the evening for a while before quitting all together.

Swim has no advice on herbal tranquillizers, but Swim found it indeed very usefull as Harry mentioned to do some relaxing exercises. Swim drank a strong cup of Valerian root tea before bed time and calming teas during the day.

Good luck!

[Nargyle]

Swim found this on google:

Can valerian improve the sleep of insomniacs after benzodiazepine withdrawal?8
Sleep Laboratory of the Department of Psychobiology, Universidade Federal de Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo, Brazil.
PURPOSE: The authors studied the sleep of patients with insomnia who complained of poor sleep despite chronic use of benzodiazepines (BZDs). The sample consisted of 19 patients (mean age 43.3+/-10.6 years) with primary insomnia (DSM-IV), who had taken BZDs nightly, for 7.1+/-5.4 years. The control group was composed of 18 healthy individuals (mean age 37+/-8 years). Sleep electroencephalogram (EEG) of the patients was analyzed with period amplitude analysis (PAA) and associated algorithms, during chronic BZD use (Night 1), and after 15 days of a valerian placebo trial (initiated after washout of BZD, Night 2). Sleep of control subjects was monitored in parallel. RESULTS: Valerian subjects reported significantly better subjective sleep quality than placebo ones, after BZD withdrawal, despite the presence of a few side effects. However, some of the differences found in sleep structure between Night 1 and Night 2 in both the valerian and placebo groups may be due to the sleep recovery process after BZD washout. Example of this are: the decrease in Sleep Stage 2 and in sigma count; the increase in slow-wave sleep (SWS), and delta count, which were found to be altered by BZD ingestion. There was a significant decrease in wake time after sleep onset (WASO) in valerian subjects when compared to placebo subjects; results were similar to normal controls. Nonetheless, valerian-treated patients also presented longer sleep latency and increased alpha count in SWS than control subjects. CONCLUSIONS: The decrease in WASO associated with the mild anxiolytic effect of valerian appeared to be the major contributor to subjective sleep quality improvement found after 2-week of treatment in insomniacs who had withdrawn from BDZs. Despite subjective improvement, sleep data showed that valerian did not produce faster sleep onset; the increase in alpha count compared with normal controls may point to residual hyperarousabilty, which is known to play a role in insomnia. Nonetheless, we lack data on the extent to which a sedative drug can improve alpha sleep EEG. Thus, the authors suggest that valerian had a positive effect on withdrawal from BDZ use.
Publication Types:

Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 11999905 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Does anybody have any experience with this? If so, did it work?


Thanks

[MizzWhizz]

As said earlier, it works for Swim. Swim drinks it as a tea and it has a very strong and peculiar smell, so most of Swim's friend politely decline when Swim offers them some Valerian tea.

Not sure if whatever country Swiy lives in sell it in chemists, but certainly in UK and the Netherlands one can buy Valerian tablets at the chemist/pharmacy. Swim's GP even prescribed them when Swim was in need of something calming.

And cats love the stuff. Swim's cat eats it and goes all dreamy and is purring non-stop.

Swim has some other herbal teas she used while trying to get off benzos, but valerian helps the most.

[Nargyle]

Well, swim took his last valium on sunday and apart from some anxiety and nausea he has felt quite well, however the nausea really bothers him, is it common to have nausea when quitting benzos? he has never heard of it

[kareena]

I would expect just about any physical and/or mental discomfort is possible when quitting benzos. There's a thread on here somewhere where someone pasted in a list of possible horrors when quitting benzos, and it's one hell of a long list (compiled by the originator to scare the life out of people from using benzos I guess) [when I say the originator I don't mean the DF member who posted it]. So I'm sure nausea might be on there somewhere. Anyway, good luck and well done for quitting. :)

EDIT: And here's the link (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16819&highlight=benzo+withdrawal). And yeah nausea is on it. That list is just freakish, I'm pretty certain most only get a portion of those symptoms.