View Full Version : Ambien Addiction... HELP!
This one may be hard to understand for some people... in fact, for most people who have stuck to using Ambien "as prescribed" for sleep. For those who have tried fighting off the "knockout" effect for awhile, some of you will be closer (to varying degrees) to understanding what's going on with SWIM.
SWIM believes he has a mild physical addiction to Ambien (i.e. dysphoria, mild anxiety, stomach pains if he goes without) but he has never before experienced a stronger *psychological* addiction to any substance... ever!
SWIM has recently taken to dropping 5mg Ambien in his cup of morning tea! Not to mention eating 'em like candy during the day, because he gets this peaceful/relaxed yet energized euphoria. Maybe he needs to look into frickin' alcohol! A few beers or something... :rolleyes:
SWIM refilled his Ambien script (30 tablets) on the 19th, which was four days ago. He is now down to 2 1/2 tablets. That means he went through seven tablets/day (up from four/day on his last prescription). If the physical part of the addiction is mild, it sure won't remain so for long at this rate.
SWIM will be seeing his doctor on the 24th (tomorrow) and is going to request a switch to Lunesta. He thinks his doctor will go for it, as (A) it's FDA approved for long-term use, and (B) its half-life is 6 hours, which means you don't need to keep taking it and taking it and taking it and TAKING IT just to stay asleep, let alone for its relaxing/energizing qualities during the day.
SWIM will have to break this addiction, but in the meantime he's grasping at straws... like trying to cash out on some stuff so he can order from ridiculously pricey U.S. online pharmacies. If that doesn't work, he's fully willing to go "doctor shopping" & pay full retail price for Ambien tablets.
Help...? :(
Wow, SWIY's tolerance must be sky high!
A while ago SWIM got 100 Ambien (Zolpidem) from an IOP and took them every night, SWIM thinks SWIM was probably addicted too but when they ran out SWIM just didnt get any more.
Has SWIM tried to go without his Ambien at all?? Sounds like SWIY could just gradually reduce his dosage to 0 and see how he feels then??
SWIM does know the effect from Ambien that SWIY is referring too, but SWIM only took small doses so probably never experienced as profound as an effect as SWIY.
Sorry SWIM cant be of more help!
Forthesevenlakes
24-11-2006, 11:37
Reducing dosage may be the best option if SWIY has the self control to do so. SWIM is wondering if ambien's similarity to benzo's would make it harmful to quit cold turkey. Is SWIY able to go a day without ambien? If so, did he suffer physical withdrawal symptoms? If there was no withdrawal, then cold turkey may have to be the way to go. Lunesta may help for a while but SWIY is really going to need to set some limits on how much he uses ahead of time. Rozerem (sp?) is another option SWIY may want to look into for insomnia. It is related to the melotonin molecule and induces sleep that way...so its not like the GABA-ergic sleeping pills at all. From what SWIM hears Rozerem is pretty non-addictive, and indeed not intoxicating at all. It does help with sleep, but it is more mild and subtle; sleep seems to come more naturally with it than ambien so perhaps the lack of a perceptible "high" would discourage abuse.
SWIM discussed this a bit further in his Lunesta experience report(s) (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=207898) thread... he thinks he's just going to drop Ambien like a hot stone, solving the problem. Otherwise he's headed into a very, very bad situation. He does appreciate everyone's input...
P.S. in response to one specific question, SWIM ran out of Ambien last night and did experience some physical withdrawals today, but they weren't serious (he thinks it would take a lot more than 50-60 mg/day, given how short-acting zolpidem is). For the curious -- the symptoms are watery eyes, chills, sweating, stomach ache and anxiety/agitation. It actually feels a lot like mild opiate withdrawal.
AchaeaPerson
25-11-2006, 08:26
SWIA had EXACTLY the same problem as SWIN about two weeks ago, and also ended up switching to Lunesta (which he had been on before he switched to Ambien.) SWIA was also forced to go cold-turkey, and it was a pretty difficult experience. What dosage of Lunesta is SWIN taking nightly? All SWIA really has to say is that he wishes you the best of luck in getting off the stuff, and hopes that the experience isn't as difficult for SWIN as it was for SWIA.
SWIA had EXACTLY the same problem as SWIN about two weeks ago, and also ended up switching to Lunesta (which he had been on before he switched to Ambien.) SWIA was also forced to go cold-turkey, and it was a pretty difficult experience. What dosage of Lunesta is SWIN taking nightly?
Theoretically 3mg, but SWIM's gonna see if he can get to sleep on 1.5mg or so (which would help make the stuff last longer).
All SWIA really has to say is that he wishes you the best of luck in getting off the stuff, and hopes that the experience isn't as difficult for SWIN as it was for SWIA.
Well... (A) SWIM has little choice, unless he wants to "doctor shop" and get 10 tablets here & 15 there at full retail price (not worth spending every spare cent or risking getting busted). (B) It's mostly psychological, and SWIM has dealt with a lot of psychological dependency in his day... enough so he's pretty experienced at dealing with it and it's rarely a terrible experience anymore. He's also got Klonopin (legally prescribed) which will help further. SWIM says thanks for the well wishes.
AchaeaPerson
25-11-2006, 12:43
SWIN is prescribed for 3mg, but is going to try 1.5? Sheesh, SWIA can't get to sleep with any less than 6mg, but if SWIN is assisting the process with Klonopin then SWIN'd probably need less.
Tomorrow begins day 3 of SWIM's cold turkey off Ambien. The last couple days have been unpleasant, but no really serious or dangerous symptoms have cropped up. Most gratefully, the time has been going by very quickly and SWIM looks forward to the end of this bullsh*t at around the one-week point.
Withdrawal was worse today than yesterday, but hopefully has peaked. Most common symptoms have been muscle twitching, minor dizziness with eye movements, anger/aggression and unpredictable bouts of extreme agitation that come on suddenly and go away gradually. Also insomnia, of course... SWIM has not slept in about 48 hours at this point, despite the use of Lunesta. He hopes he gets some sleep tonight, he will try a higher dose of Lunesta (thanks, AchaeaPerson... SWIM meant 1.5mg *after* he gets over the Ambien, not before).
A combination of 4.5mg Lunesta and some "positive thinking" finally got SWIM to sleep, and kept him asleep for about 01:45. After which he woke up in an agitated state, and another 1.5mg (total 6mg) was not enough to put him back to sleep.
Don't get SWIM wrong, he's very grateful for having gotten even this much sleep... he just decided to get out of bed, have a cup of herb tea & see if he can shake off this agitated feeling enough to be able to sleep some more. If necessary, he'll try another 3mg of Lunesta (although 9mg is really pushing the bounds of how much he's willing to take, he could do it once as a special occasion sort of thing). He will also take a few mg of melatonin in hopes that adds to the overall effect.
Note that the taste in SWIM's mouth is bad enough to have Satan projectile-vomiting right about now. SWIM recommends most people stay the hell away from Lunesta.
AchaeaPerson
26-11-2006, 10:07
SWIN could try crushing however much Lunesta he plans to take and parachuting it, (although he should be VERY SURE he uses slightly more tissue paper than he thinks he needs, because if he ends up with any amount of powdered Lunesta, let alone multiple mg of the stuff in his mouth, getting to sleep will be the least of his worries) which SWIA does when using it to go to sleep after taking stimulants; it seems to hit him faster and stronger than just swallowing the pills, although this could be the placebo effect. When SWIA does it, he uses anywhere from 3-6mg, and it usually gets him to sleep without fail. Be aware, though, that when SWIA does this, the 'visual disturbances' are more pronounced, it shouldn't be anything to worry about, just didn't want SWIN to be caught off-guard. SWIA would also recommend that instead of redosing 1.5mg (which SWIA isn't sure if SWIN is doing, but it seemed like it might be from SWINs last post) until SWIN is able to fall asleep, that he take as much as he thinks he will need at once, because the time to peak plasma concentration of Eszopiclone is one hour, so if SWIN took 1.5mg, then half an hour later decided it wasn't enough and took 1.5mg more, when the first dose was reaching its full effects, the second doses effects would still be increasing, and when the second dose reached its full effects, the first doses effects would already be decreasing. Lastly, as far as not wanting to take 9mg at once, SWIA has taken up to nearly 30mg with no negative effects or evidence of toxicity; unless SWINs concern is limited supply, not possible toxicity, in which case SWIA understands not wanting to take it in excess. If SWIN has any specific questions regarding Lunesta, feel free to PM me, as SWIA has been taking Lunesta for quite a while, and is quite experienced with its effects.
Thanks Achaea, SWIM appreciates the advice. He managed to fall back asleep, & then overslept until 2:30PM today. Not a bad thing, but it will make it more difficult to get back to sleep again tonight.
P.S. yeah, the concern with Lunesta is supply more than OD'ing. SWIM is limited to 30 tablets/month, so he has to be careful to conserve.
OccularFantasm
20-04-2007, 16:46
SWIM has insomnia 90% of the time and also has had to get off many a pills. As far as ambien goes the tolerence builds incredibly fast. Luckily the withdrawl isnt that bad. Swim thinks this withdrawl would be multiplied by the sharp lessening of sleep mixed with a probable headache. Swim would advise smoking a giant blunt before bed. swim does this and brings a lil blunt to bed with him. If swim wakes up too early swim will just light up the other blunt.
If swiy is worried about legality here and wants to go for the pill approach, then swim could advise a couple different pills. Thorazine is fast and easy and gaurenteed you will be able to oversleep weather you want to or not.
It would also make a difference if swyi was having trouble getting tired or just trouble sleeping, as differnt drugs would hep these conditions. take between .6 and 1.2 grams of gabapentin if this is a one time thing. this drug is bad for continued use, although it will make you in a permastoned condition, the tolerence builds faster than any other drug swim has ever taken. Also the withdrawl would be about 100 times worse than ambien. Depakote works similar. Klonopin swim couldnt tell the difference bwteen taking it and not, even if swim were to take it in the middle of the day. As far as rozerem goes, swim has never tried it but in the commercial they say may effect some hormones. With this swim would hypothesise that this drug will do more harm than good. Alcohol is no good becuase your sleep will not be restful, not to mention the hangover the next day will be no better than the withdrawl the day before. vicodin and oxycontin work well but again, you want a drug with not as bad withdrawl, and these definatly have signifigantly worse. Swim finds some helpfulness when he smokes some salvia. Swim finds sort of a mind soothing opiate buzz. Also has swyi tried taking any kava or magnesium before bed, these could potentiate the effects of whatever you decide to take and will probably help with the sleep, as well as anxiety. Oh yeah swim almost forgot if swyi injects some haloperidol swyi will sleep very hard. This also occurs with risperidal. The downside with these is noticable pschological changes with constant mild hallucinations. Altho this could be fun depending on your mood. If none of these work, goto a psych hospital, act up, and enjoy the mystery cocktail they inject you with. The downside to this is your locked up under constant survailance, and this could be intimidating without weed. So all in all, swim guesses he advises some weed, opium, magnesium, and kava.
Oh swim almost forgot (damn swims adhd) that if swiy's main trouble is more sleep regulation then perhaps mushrooms would better suit you. swim has had great success taking between a half eighth and an eighth of psilocybe cubenis around 9PM. Swim noticed taking them earlier that since the effects woud wear off before bed sim was actually fairly energized. Swim did find however when taking it later, by the time swimw as rewady to sleep swim had to wait to stop tripping. This works for swim, hopefully it'll work for swyi too. Oh almost forgot again if mushrooms are not taken with lotsa weed then the effects are totally different. swim uses lots of weed everyday so incorporate anything swim says with that supplemental information. As with the mushrooms weed will potentiate the trip as well as add a calming effect.
Alright swim cant rememeber what hes typing about so swim out. Damn swim guesses that swim was about a year too late on this post.
Thanks for the reply... this was an old post/thread though, SWIM hasn't taken any Ambien since last December.
allyourbase
21-04-2007, 17:51
when swim was younger he loved ambien. but after a year or so of taking it very sporadicly say maybe once or twice a month, swim developed an aversion to it. it causes some very severe discomfort in swim. it starts out with a tingling of the skin similar to extasy, then ratchets up to feeling like one is being crawled upon by millions of centipedes. swim will then have problems breathing followed by bouts of projectile vomiting...often black vomit regardless of what swim has eaten. thus, swim no longer likes ambien, and encourages others not to take it.
Ambien (and the other new-generation prescription sleep meds) affect the activity of a receptor called GABA-A. Now, pretty much anything that touches GABA, from benzodiazepines to alcohol to GHB to chamomile tea to these medications, have a possibility of tolerance/withdrawal.
If SWIM has studied benzo/alcohol withdrawal some, you know that the effect is strongly physical and toxic. Reactions could include seizure and death at the most extreme.
In the future, SWIM should know that cold turkey with these meds is not a good idea. One way to deal with the problem is to titrate the dose downwards slowly. As I suggested above, things that stimulate GABA in a mild way are also a good idea. Chamomile, L-theanine, meditation, tiny doses of GHB, valerian and phenibut could all suffice for a time, if it could be ensured that the individual in question would not develop toxic use patterns with regard to these substances.
hoodabudda
11-05-2007, 08:59
swiy should just get it upped to the 10mg tabs they kick ass!!!cut swiyour ambien dose with weed it really h works as a great cut/enhancer,like alcohol and benzos or OJ and opiates the high lasts way longer too instead of 45 min its like 1&1/2 hours and way trippier and cuts the pot anxiety out completely..no paranoia but sometimes swiy will get parinod thoughts but the ambien makes you just laugh at them, the dont give you that pang of fear"oh shit do my parents know im high??!! can they smell it??" you kno...
Swim also had gotten dependent on ambien for a while as swim has always had issues with insomnia. Swim didn't misuse it, but felt she needed it to sleep. The commercials are misleading as the wds are very benzo like if one has ever went through that lovely experience. However, not as long. Benzo wds can last a looooong time as wds from ambien last usually 4 days max depending on how much is used. Be careful with Lunesta, it was available in Europe before coming to the us, under a different name which escapes me at the moment. But it too can be habit forming. Swim didn't care for the after taste so never got dependent on Lunesta. Rozerem is a lot like Melatonin and didn't help swim sleep:(