bioavailability of morphine for oral vs. insufflated

[pokeymcsmot421]

It has come to swims attention as of late that there is much debate about whether to crush and swallow ones morphine, or to crush and insufflate it.

Despite everybody seeming to "know for sure" which method provides the best efficiency, oppinions continue to vary and the only thing that seems to be agreed on is that mscontin is no good to insufflate because it gels up in your nose.

swim would like to ask the experts (i know you guys are on here) for a once and for all answer to this question.

I mean its not an oppinion kind of thing, one way has to have a better bioavailability correct? I know water solubility comes in to play here.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/301/1/391

by the looks of this article vs. the info on wikopedia it seems like oral has 30 percent bioavailability vs. ten percent insufflated, unless insufflated in a proper formula????

enlighten me. (yes i realize this thread is also pretty much directly below, but the question shows up 6 or seven times on every page and it seems it should be answered once and for good)

[Fantasian]

In SWIF's experience Crushing followed by oral ingestion is the more effective than infufflation.
SWIFantasian has always found the high much more pleasurable and longer lasting.
However it should be noted that SWIF hates insufflation in general as it has never worked very effectivly for him.

From a scientific point of view Oral has a much better bioavailablity as you have already posted above however it's more like 35% to 10%.

Both have quite bad bioavilability in comparison to rectal administration and injection.

Hope i helped feel free to ask any more questions :)

[pokeymcsmot421]

thanks a ton, it definitely helped....if you dont mind i'll take advantage of that offer to ask a couple more questions.

since it is clear that it does in fact have a higher bioavailability orally,
why is it people consistantly report to get stronger effects from insufflation? seems to me like it would be one third as strong?

is this just placebo effect?
Or does the little bit that actually gets absorbed get absorbed faster therefor producing more intense effects?

that doesnt make sense to me either since crushing and swallowing should make it hit you all at once, hence the point of crushing.

idk any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for the help.

haha on a side note, if anyone read the article what do they think of this chitosan spray substance in order to increase bioavailability five or six fold? prolly b.s? un-obtainable substance? or medical breakthrough that will save all of our hypothetical friends money someday?

[Forthesevenlakes]

insufflation of morphine seems to have a better bioavailability than oral ingestion (although neither are that great), and absorption time would be faster in any case, which could lead to reports of stronger effects.

in swim's experience the availability is only better when insufflated when using ms contin, instead of instant release morphine with a ton of binders...if theres a good amount of excess filler it'd be better to administer orally.

swim would like to look into the chitosan substance mentioned or hear more about it...

[Fantasian]

thanks a ton, it definitely helped....if you dont mind i'll take advantage of that offer to ask a couple more questions.

since it is clear that it does in fact have a higher bioavailability orally,
why is it people consistantly report to get stronger effects from insufflation? seems to me like it would be one third as strong?

is this just placebo effect?
Or does the little bit that actually gets absorbed get absorbed faster therefor producing more intense effects?

that doesnt make sense to me either since crushing and swallowing should make it hit you all at once, hence the point of crushing.

idk any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for the help.

haha on a side note, if anyone read the article what do they think of this chitosan spray substance in order to increase bioavailability five or six fold? prolly b.s? un-obtainable substance? or medical breakthrough that will save all of our hypothetical friends money someday?

Insufflation produced faster effects therefore is often misinterpretted as being more intense as the effects are gained much faster. Orally the morphine tends to slowly take effect. Crushing and swallowing doesnt create in instant full hit just increases the surface area therefore increasing the speed of onset.

The veins in the nose can still deliver the morphine much quicker than the gut as it's direct to the blood stream. Regardless of crushing...

Sorry if that doesnt make much sense im pretty tired atm, if your unsure on any of it just ask again :)

[muidumees]

one article swim found on google states that rectal and oral admin. has the exact same bioavailability. can all morhpine pils be administrated rectaly or does it have to be in special form?

[Forthesevenlakes]

probably would be best to dissolve it in water or something (if its even very water soluble) and do an enema. theres lots of threads on drug enemas here, just do a search! although swim did once know someone who stuck a whole pill of 40 mg oxy in their arse, and ended up vomiting profusely. so its not a failsafe route!

[prescription]

whoa i thought oral was the worst method of administration with morphine (because it gets metabolized by the liver in the first pass) and rectal is the best. Is this true or have i completely misunderstood the science behind this?

[pokeymcsmot421]

swim is under the understanding that

oral has around a 30% bioavailability.

rectal has around 60% bioavailability.

insufflation has around 10% bioavailability, however when you snort something alot of what doesnt absorb you end up swallowing anyways, so maybe you could look at it as 30% plus 10%???? or maybe thats bullshit, Im no doctor, thats just some second hand common sense. ..

Oh yea, IV would be 100 percent since thats the yardstick they compare other methods of ingestion against.

[Subuser]

So if SWIM had crushed a 30MG MS-Contin and insuffalated it, would that be like the IV effects of 3 MG since it is absorbed through the bloodstream? (10% of the 30 mg=3 mg)