Why are drugs illegal?

[Do_Japan]

The more anti-drug material I read the more I see how bias it is.I have come to the conclusion that it has absolutly nothing to do with our health, the government doesn't give a shit about us. The simple fact is when we are out partying, having fun, bothering no one, we arnt at home paying taxes. I feel thats the true reason drugs are illegal. People who say kids drink and do drugs because they have emotional problems or are depressed have their heads up their asses. Apparantly the combined mind power of every anti-drug supporter in america could not come up with the simply idea that we drink and do drugs because they are f**king fun! Why should they be illegal we only hurt ourselves, if i want to cut off my finger god damnit I will cut my f**king finger off, if i want to kill my brain cells then I will kill my brain cells. No f**king government is going to tell me what to do with my body!

[Leo.]

I think... it is because of a few reasons... drugs can be so good and yetthey can also be the complete opposite, so bad they can cause death. Something that is able to have that kind of effect should not be taken lightly,and it is understandable to me why a government might done it as illegal. And when we are out partying, there is no guarentee everyone will just have fun or not bother anyone... people can be stupid, we are only human. It's probably not you the law is for, but that dumb f**k down the street who causes havek and makes everyone else suffer for it.

[Do_Japan]

I guess that is true, but it seems uneccesary to such harsh laws. If you want to have fun you have to take risks, otherwise your life will be pretty f**kign boring. I was just angry about my recent MIP before, but im over it now and more understanding after I met my drug/alcohol analysis counsilor and he seemed to be a cool and understanding guy, i was expecting some bitch who would say things like "if you had a hang over in the morning that was your body being addicted to the alcohol and craving more, you have a problem" just bull shit like that that my friend's counsilor told him really made me hate the government for a temporary period of afew days.

[Leo.]

I also think it is ridiculous that alcohol is legal and weed is not. That to me makes no sense.

[Guest]

I think that it is very simple: alcohol does not shift your consciousness; it numbs & inhibits. Psychedelics & Cannabis will get you philosophical, making you think outside the masses, at least once in a while. What do you think would happen to the now so easy to controll and manipulate masses, if psychedelics and marijuanawould be part of every day life of these masses?


If you think that this thought is to far out, please note that the authorities are well aware of what happened, when psychedelic drug use was at it's peak in the sixties and the US was going to war. Do you think George could have started one war after another with only weak excuses, in a time like that? The masses need to be controlled.

[hollywood]

I agree, but all so it boils down to money. The government is looseing millions and millions. I think this is what motivates them to act like they do about drugs. It sure as hell isn't our health............................................ .....

[salineman]

well yeah


and a lot of people are very un- or disinformed about most drugs


a lot of people swallow the shit every school, politician, or government program feeds them. its actually a problem that affects MUCH more than just how society in general views drugs. i could go on for hours and days about this.


and its also the faults of addicts and irresponsible users. drugs were never really a huge deal at all until the late mid-60s when many reports arose of the "counterculture" taking hallucinogens and doing rediculously dangerous and/or fatal things.


and then of course charles manson came along and f**ked up the reputation of lsd forever


and then the late 60s & early 70s rolled around. heroin made a huge comeback and the numbers of addicts skyrocketed.


and finally, with the 80s and early 90s came the arrival of crack and heroin came back again. every inner city in america was filled with addicts and thats all anyone else saw of drug users. addicts.


so good job, assholes

[Woodman]

DAMN, I'm glad to see this topic!



I'ld like to offer a slightly different perspective, though.



Just about everyone who has posted here seems to be approaching this issue from a social angle. I don't consider that unreasonable as I, too, believe that drug use is an issue of personal choice.



Having stated that, I am also compelled to point out that there is no small amount of MONEY and POWER involved in the distribution & consumption of illicit drugs.



In my opinion (and it's just theory) Hollywood has come closest to the mark; consider his posting:





Originally posted by hollywood on 06 October 2003I agree, but all so it boils down to money. The government is looseing millions and millions. I think this is what motivates them to act like they do about drugs. It sure as hell isn't our health.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------



...But, unlike Hollywood, I do NOT believe that the US Government is ; LOSING money. To the contrary; I believe they are MAKING money, and doing it hand over f**king fist.



I think that it is in the best interest of various political factions to keep drugs illegal. This is done to create jobs for entire departments of Federal, State, & Local, government bureaucracies. It also serves as a wonderfully fictitious socio-political issue to champion during election periods in order to generate votes.



Let's face it, if the US Government were serious about the "War-on-Drugs" then it would NO LONGER be an issue because there would be NO war!



Consider what would happen if the US applied the same urgency to the "War-on-Drugs" as was applied to the "War in Vietnam,"



If THAT were the case then, I would posit, we would have legalized & taxed both heroin & cocaine a long ago.



The whole thing is a BULLSHIT political agenda, and what really pisses me off is that there are a lot of really good people who died (and are continuing to die) because they happen to buy into it!



I wish the American People would WAKE-UP and have enough courage to recognize our politicians as planting the flag of their of their own political agenda (with accompanying self-aggrandizing rhetoric) atop a pile of corpses that were once fine American Citizens and see the ueslessness of this ridiculous prohibition..

[Guest]

What are your views on the reports and rumors on drugs trafficking by the CIA? What level of trueth do you think they have and how do you think the drug traffickingrelates to the War on drugs?

[Woodman]

I doubt that the CIA is involved in drug trafficking by way of policy directive, clandestine or otherwise; however, I don't think it’s unreasonable to assume that high-level personnel within the CIA are lining their own pockets through this enterprise.



This government agency is in the perfect position establish international contacts. Hell, they SPECIALIZE in organizing outlaw coalitions, and strategic alliances. And they back them up by mobilizing resistance fighters from an existing population.



When you consider the kinds of resources that it takes to be able to formulate a long-term strategy, communicate with various political & military factions (some not altogether friendly with each other), mobilize them toward a coordinated effort, and put together all of the peripheral logistical elements (food, weapons, gear, equipment, computers, transportation, medicine, etc.) necessary to make it all happen, you can easily see how this kind of capability puts you in a position to create & control a VERY LARGE SCALE international smuggling enterprise.



I think that a group (or separate groups) of individuals within the CIA use their training and access to these resources to form various alliances, both at home & abroad, to control a large segment of the international drug trade.



...As to whether there exists a secret long-term policy that amounts to a large-scale government conspiracy; I really doubt it.



Just ask yourself: If you were the guy in control of such commerce, would YOU be willing to share if you didn't have to?



I sure as F**K wouldn't!



But , for politicians, this doesn't preclude taking advantage of the situation (nor perpetuating or otherwise exploiting the issue) for the purpose of gaining political capital. In fact, I think that they would find that kind of opportunity irresistible.

[edgien]

Why are drugs illegaL??? simpLe queston but a queston with no true answer. I view it as a snowbaLL that roLLs on forever but one thing is sure they aLways wiLL be. But since I feeL like an asshoLe at the moment I`ll give an asshoLe answer.....if drugs were legaL what the heLL would Law Inforcement do? Solve reaL crimes like murder, rape, child molesting, etc.??? Investigate crimes that are trulyrelevant to the average Joe and Jane?? I mean if you was a highLy trained Police officer wouldnt you rather trample on the rights of those you serve, orfly helicoptors aLL day looking for the eviL plants of doom orspend the day searching trash bags in hope of finding a singLeseed so you can obtain a search warrant in orderto smeLL somegirL's panties......I would hate to thinkthe notion that drugs are legaL because then law inforcement would then have to find the sLime that ripped off my house instead of writing a report for insurance porposes and telling me.."sorry but there reaLLy isnt anything we can do for ya feLLa, buy a deadbolt, and do I smeLL marijuana in here?" yeah if drugs were legaLaLL thoseboys & girlsin blue and brownwould have it bad, no front~page"drug bust" news, no free "drugs" , no free "drug money".....yeah it would reaLly be rough if drugs were legaL.

[wizard warior]

well i think its just about power and greed becuase the people who control the drug buisness wether they actually realize it or not is the politicains and law agenzies because they created the whole war on drugs and all the bull shit that has come along with it. so its the politicans who satrted it and they will have to stop it if they decide to everdothe wright thing for once. its a nice thought to think that people could grow there own medicine in thier back yard and not have to pay ridiculus ammounts of money to buy drugs which have lots of nasty sideffects. so there has to be justice eventually.

[searcher]

Drugs are illegal because the government wants individuals to be productive members of society, working, with minds clear and notimpared by the use of drugs. Marijuana makes you lazy. Speed destroys your health. Your mind is clouded under the influence of opiates. How can you hope to deal with reality under the influence of halucinogens. Recreational drugs impair your judgement.


The government is concerned about you and wantswhat is best for society as a whole. The government does not want you to be hopped up on goofballs.

[markdahman]

<blockquote> Originally posted by searcher on 02 August 2004<hr>


Drugs are illegal because the government wants individuals to be productive members of society, working, with minds clear and not impared by the use of drugs. Marijuana makes you lazy. Speed destroys your health. Your mind is clouded under the influence of opiates. How can you hope to deal with reality under the influence of halucinogens. Recreational drugs impair your judgement.

The government is concerned about you and wants what is best for society as a whole. The government does not want you to be hopped up on goofballs.

<hr></blockquote>



Yeah you think so eh? I would disagree wiht thast frsure! The goverment doesnt give a flying shit about our health!! They let us drink in smoke wich kills not only ourselfs but others!! How many people have died do to second hand smoke! people whodidnt even smoke have died from it!! Drunk drivers have also kill ALOT of people and the people who get killed by drunk drivers arent doing anythign wrong! But say smoking weed whose that gonna kill? Certainly not alot of people as compared to smoking and drinking! If the goverment really cared about you they wouldnt allow that! The reason is indeed greed by the goverment they only allow smoking becuz they can continously raise taxes on it and we will still pay the tax no matter how much it is! They are also trying to get more money for alcohol two! The goverment is completly f*cked!

[searcher]

The government will always say drugs are bad. If they tax tobacco and alcohol, well, that doesn't mean that the government encourages the use, it is just another way of raising money. The government does not want you to pollute your body and mindwith drugs.

[Pope]

The stuff they feed the public about how bad drugs are isinsane. I heard on the radio the other week that a new study shows that reefer madness really does exist because of the higher amounts of THC that is in marijuana today.. or something to that extent.


On a different note.. if the government really cared about our health wouldn't they make the corporations stop putting theadded chemicals in cigarettes thatmake them more addicting and more harmfull?


Istarted out smoking camels and now I'm smoking USA golds/cherokees/tucsons/monarchs etc.because the better tasting ones are too expensive. I'd hate to thinkhow bad my health is now because of the extra crap they put in those cigarettes, or is that something else the public schools brainwashed into my head?

[wizard warior]

searcher i have a thought to put to you. i bet you have never thought of alcohol and smokes as actually being 'drugs' them selves.well just because they do not tramatically change your normal state or have any majorinsights this certainly does not mean that there are not drugs, okay they are not psychoactive well i think caffine is actually check erowid i'nt sure. its all about deciet and lies every one gets brain washed form an early age wether yourealize it or not,that booze and fags are good and every single other 'drug' is bad and really nastie. yeah wright! wake up and smell the coffe. do you know that some people in africa actually belive that grass makes you more inteligent therfore itis good and acceptable, well onlyin thier country for now.

[RoboCop]

(delete this post.)

[searcher]

Yes, alcohol and nicotine are drugs. The government tried to abolish alcohol sales during prohibition. The drug war is similar to prohibition although I do not believe that marijuana, speed, cocaine, pills, heroin, recreational drugs, LSD, mushrooms or any other controled substance comes close to being used (or abused) as much as alcohol. Alcohol causes birth defects and it is legal.


It is up to you weather you use drugs and alcohol. The government trys to control these substances as it sees fit. I personally feel that marijuana is not as harmful as alcohol and should be controled the same way alcohol is but I don't think that will ever happen.


I think of all the money the government could have made by legalizing grass the same way as alcohol. People are going to do drugs if they are available.


As I said previously, taking drug, in the governments view, is irresponsible and makes you a danger to yourself and society. If it was up to me, we'd be partying all day and all night, but, it is not up to me. Society has elected leaders and have made laws saying drugs should be illegal and be abolished. It makes society better as a whole when individuals are not allowed to use drugs.

[manda]

On a simpler note, the first answer that popped into my head after reading the question is "Because some people are fucking dumb."

[searcher]

My first thought was, drugs are illegal, just to piss everyone off.

[infamous.truth]

plain and simple answer.


drugs are illegal because the gov't makes no profit.


ghost.

[Thegreatone]

damn right, look at the tax on cigs,and boozepot will be legal when they can tax he shit outta it.

[manda]

Even if drugs were legal, can you imagine the break-ins, the possible rioting to steal these drugs from where they are sold at.. That would be interesting if stores that sold them ever had stock for very long- either getting bought up or ripped off would be my guess...

[wizard warior]

well personally i think that alcohol is far worse that grass because it makes people become deranged and violent and more so than anyone that i know who uses pot sensibly. and if drugs were legal what the hell would the psyictrists,doctors,layers,drug dealers, and judges do.

[G-man]

Has any1 though if drugs where legal to every1, People loose a little of the buzz? (thats just a thought). I know the laws on marijuana don't make sence. But if it where legalised would it be along side with alcohol and what do you reckon the age restriction on marijuana would be in America and the uk? All i know is prices would be out of control and when that happens people wantit cheaper, where would that lead people ... back to street trade!

[P!MPJU!C3]

I think that if you would ask the mainstream why drugs are illegal you probably wont get farther then:"Because they're bad."

Being that politicians, the law makers in every country, have to deal with the mainstream they have to keep the main stream happy by making drugs illegal.

I dont understand, but i can imagine why drugs are illegal. It is as searcher said. The government wants a good healthy society. But i think its also more than that. I think that the government wants 2 protect one from him- or herself and others.

From others because their are drugs that make you voilent like Crack. This is not short seighted from my side but a fact because i have seen these people @ it.

What the government doesnt understand is that when they legalise drugs there will be a lot less problems because they can regulate what the drug is cut with so that people get good quality stuff which takes many dangers away. Also they will completely demolish the drug industry meaning they will have to spend a lot less on crime fighting.

If only the government of the USA would legalise weed there would be a lot less problems. In the Netherland weed is legal as everyone knows i expect. But the drugsproblem here is a lot smaller as a result 2 that.

In the end probably weed wont be legalised in America 4 a long time. The public is just not ready 4 it in the USA.

[Lara]

Hey ho,


the opinion from hollywood is quite right. MONEY is the answer. I am really not surprised that drugs are permitted in a would, in which people get much money because they drank a cup of coffie which is to hot. I don´t see there any responsibility of the people for their own body. And this people are aloud to vote the government, too. And for Do_Japan I would like to say, people who hurt themselves cost much money. Or have you to payyourself the doctor who takes your finger back to the place where it belongs and would people in U.S.A. get no medical help when unable paying themselves for it?


MONEY is the answer.


For exemple in Germany they put taxes on cigarettes. A really nice idea - much less illnesses from legal smoking would follow because many people would decide to stop smoking. BUT the government does not directly put the hole taxis on the cigarettes. They make planes to put the taxes step by step on the cigarettes. There is only one reason for doing this: fear that to many people stop smoking - the priority is the economie and the fabriks producing cigarettes and paying taxes and giving jobs to their employments - NOT the health of people.


The most money with illegal stuff make the dealers in higher positions. But what would happen to the econemie if everyone from one day to the next stops using illegal stuff? No one would steel any more to get money for their stuff. The insurance have to pay less - the prisons became more empty. What would happen to the economie and to the number of people without work? And what would happen, if the government legalize every kind of drug?


The other thing is that it is historical grown which drug is legal an which not. Everyone knows and testes alcohol and cigarettes and would feel cutted in freedom if they would be permitted, because all studies say that they harm their healthy more than shit. The old 83 years old lady would really not understand the would any longer if government permits her Tai-Ginsen for a better brain including alcohol and let sell shit by seven-eleven. The non-user only know about the cases of peoples life go in bad direction because of using drugs. The TV informs only good about that side. Sometimes well known doctors tell in TV that canabis is a drog which is as dangerous as coke or black tea but at the same time the moderator brings the agument that people start their bad drug-experience with canabis first and take more dangerous stuff later. I never unterstud why that is an argument against free canabis. For me that would be an argument to legalize canabis for separating it from "dangerous" drugs.


Thank you for reading and sorry for my pitty English.

[P!MPJU!C3]

if drugs arent legal because of money then the government is really stupid. They spend a lot more money on fighting crime then they would if they would legalise everything. The drug war costs money it doesnt generate money. If the government is so stupid 2 think theyre earning money by keeping drugs illegal they are very stupid. It doesnt have anything 2 do with money i believe.

[wizard warior]

well here we go again.i spend too much time thinking about this one,, and well my honest conclusion is that the WHOLE system throughout the Whole wrold is courrupt that means that everything is wrong,,! and its never going to be put wright,because things are sooo fucked up in the world.there is no chance of drugs everybecomming legal only more tolerated than they are now. drugs used to be legal in the sixties and lookhow fucked up that era was, tim leary was made out to be some kind of hero and he was a snitch to the fbi.so 'drugs' especially hard 'drugs' can have a Very negative effect on certain indivauls and the society as a whole.the other main reason i belive drugs' are illegal and going to stay that way,is becse the people who control the 'drugs', and the markets are big tough motherfuckers, with guns and big bad dogs and lots, and lots, and lots, of money so they can buy thier way out of jail,, buy the bent cops over for the right price,,and bascially fund thier illegal activites with more drug-dealling. so the only way to stop the stupid 'war on drugs' is to educate people then stop all these evil drug mother fuckers, once and for all and make an example to the rest of the world of these fuckers.in parts of russia they hang drug dealers and other criminals in public, now i aint saying that is right but i bet it stops people from thinking that drugs and drug dealling is okay,because its not. look at all the very young(18-25yer olds) who are totally screwed up victims,,because of taking some 'bad' stuff/ or way to high a does of 'okay' stuff, when all they needed was to be told the truth from an ealry age in school and then they would'nt have fucked with the evil shit in the first place.so my view is it that education is the only real solutuoin and heavy handed policys towards these unscrupluols 'dealer' types...pz&education

[RoboCop]

(delete this post.)

[Creeping Death]

They're fighting it the wrong way anyways. The solution isn't less drugs. It's more drugs. Get more drugs, and give them to the right people.



People who really want drugs should have them, as they will always get them one way or another. And kids who go to a party and just try it out shouldn't. It would save a dumpload of money for the prisons, and it would be better controlled if the goverment sold them.



For example a dealer is gonna sell hash to anyone who wants it, while a store won't sell you cigarettes unless you're 18.

[P!MPJU!C3]

Is it 18 in Sweden? Its 16 here. Price Marlboro 3.90 or something and in Sweden?



Discussing why drugs are illegal is purposeless. In the end it comes down 2 1 thang: People are short sighted. This is something we will have to deal with.



Everybody knows that the government should legalise drugs but control them so that they make sure that only the right people get them. No more crime, less expenditures on policeforce and less problems with junkies.



We have to wake up. Its just not goin to happen 4 a long time. People are shortsighted and untill the day comes that people can think 4 themselfs, drugs will not be legal.

[wizard warior]

there definatley will be a time when safe drugs are free to who ever wants to use them.its just going to takea while like you say,but see how much things are changing all the time,nobody ever thought weed was ever going to be de-crimialised which is what is essentially happening in britian now.even if that is not exactally what the government intented to do in the first palce.

[P!MPJU!C3]

I was refering 2 America wizard warior. I know weed is de-criminaising in england. This is because I smoked weed over in Londen in my aunts appartment. This something I wouldnt do in America in fear of the Nazi-policeforce that is busy destroing the lives of peaceful people.

[wizard warior]

yea its cool that politicans are fianlly listening to the poeples voice and making the right desions.it will surley lift a massive burden on the nhs health service and i am pretty sure it would have the same positive effect on the u.s health system if the government ever came round to the uks current way of thinking.the trade possibilties are just massive and could generate losts of interesting jobs for people.

[P!MPJU!C3]

Or the Dutch way<img border="0" src= "smileys/smiley2.gif">

[xMeTaL HeAdx]

<BLOCKQUOTE> Originally posted by Leo. on 18 September 2003
<HR>
I also think it is ridiculous that alcohol is legal and weed is not. That to me makes no sense.
<HR>


I agree man. If they were going to make weedlegal though, i would assume they would make it legal for people 21 and older.</BLOCKQUOTE>

[edgien]

WoW!!! This topic never seems to find a clear understanding butI suppose itonly goes to show thatthe endless debate via the Pros and Cons will most likely never come to a reasonable middle~ground..the problem as in the days of Prohibition isthat it is impossible to legislate thehuman spirit in regards towhat one can and cannot do in the privicy of one's home or more importantly one's own being. The growing problem in America isthemountingpressurefor Goverment to control the day by day lives of theAmerican citizen andfor theGovernment to define what is right and wrong and sad fact is the American Citizen is to blame for wanting control there but not here depending what makes them happy. Even when this is done with good intention the final conflict ends with abuse of Power where a hardworkingtax paying (which is another story) citizenwho lives within even the most primitive formof decency can be destroyed simply by growing weed for his own use within his own confines which is simply and without argument a violation of the rights of theAmerican People per the Constitution of the United States.I live in small town America where the only crime that makes the front page news along with a mug~shot has to do with some form of drug activity but one look inour public record you willfind endless crimes thatoccur with little to no concern on the part of law enforcement. I could have (and have)my house broken into by some "scum of the earth worm"and have all my possesions stolen and it would read in our public record as a "house broken into..."..Law Enforcement will blame it on a relative and go on with buisness as usual. Even the most naive person understands that alcohol and tabbcco products produce far more healthissues as say marijuana but even when the facts are laid out neat as a pin the final round alwaysends with a KO with the weed laying face down with cuffs. The Government knows the war on drugs will always be a lost cause but I can almostguarantee that until the "veil" is removedfrom "Government" the War on Drugs will only continue on and on and on...resulting inrelentless abuse of power. I would be the first to agree there are certain drugs that only resultin destroying lives but being a smoker I would also say if one smokes tabacco for 30~40 years the chances of experiancing some health issues or death would be greatbut we are the sole owner of who we are and we make our choice, it shouldnever be the role of Government or Mantocontrol that choice.For anyone who does smoke tobaccoI would like to enlighten you with these facts...American Industry is entertaining the idea of a total and complete tobacco~free workplace as well as random drug testing. thePowers to Be are also attempting to allow American Industry to prohibit their workers to even using Tobacco products~ period, and although this might appear to be a over exaggerated statement or claimI can assure you from one who works for a LARGE American "Fortune 500"Corporation these things are a priority of concern in the roundtables of CEO's in Corporate America. America is stiLL the greatest country in the world and I would never want to live in another but even the Greatest Nation,when the People lose the power to restrain the "Powersto Be" the foundation willultimatelycrack.......Gein

[OneDiaDem]

I believe it is all about control. Anything that offers freedom of mind and spirit is going to stay illegal. We cant have a bunch of enlightened free thinkers running around now can we? Alcohol is legal because if you think about it, it clouds thinking. It doesnt exactly make way for discovery, unless you call puking in your shoes enlightening.

[P!MPJU!C3]

I wouldnt say all drugs are enlightening. Psychodelics yes, but amphetimens? Amphetimens just make your body really tense, I wouldnt think they enlighten people much.

[FrankenChrist]

Why in America? Protestant puritanism. When they fled Europe, those f*kers should have died out on the way over.

The drug war has become a self supporting system of lies. But we must not give up. It's a war of the government against its own people.

[thydarkprevails]

i lay a lot of blame in the US, with christian fundamentalists...it is the same as the abortion issue....we are not supposed to do something as a nation, because it is not gods will? i'm sorry, but since when was following the word of god a prerequisite for being a citizen of the united states..I, myself am not a christian, and have not been since the age of 8, does this mean I am committing treason, not following gods will? after all, certian politicians seem to emphasize the importance of god in our society..and laws...

[windtraveler]

I cant stand turning morality into laws and policy. When that starts happening (and it has been happening in the US for years) then the moral majority starts imposing its beliefs onto the moral minority, and holds power over them and the politicians. The question is why are drugs illegal, but you have to look at the rational for the status now AND why they were made illegal in the first place. Why were they made illegal in the first pLace? Probably for control over the masses, for power, for money, especially power over the minorities. Why are they still illegal? Probably because the majority of Americans have been brainwashed so thoroughly that they actually want it kept this way. "Drugs are wrong!" "Drugs are BAD!" "There would be complete mayhem if marihuana were legalized. This country would go to hell in a handbasket!" Any logical arguments on the contrary go in one ear and out the other.

But also the government has invested too much time, energy, and resources to change. How many jobs have been created by these laws? Who are the people that most want drugs to remain illegal? The DEA....and drug sellers. As far as i am concerned, drug sellers and the DEA are on the same side of this war. Both are making a lot of money doing what they are doing, while americans are losing out on both freedom of mind/body and freedom of wallet.

I thought we were a country (i am american) founded on the principle of the freedom of the pursuit of happiness, but i guess that only applies to a few these days.

[Lynchx]

drugs are ilegal to due most do cause damage to the brain and basically it would be hard to tax for the gov lol

[dr ACE]

drugs need to stay 'illegal' because of the massive profits and revenues that arecreated by them now. it is not really a war as much as an underground revolution in the diverse methods and techniques now used to make drugs.its more about info and know how not so much psyhical warfront like confrontaions,i think thats just a bullshite term made up to make ppl think that it is the drugs falut that this war is now 'happening' but really its down to ignorance and lack of first hand experience

[Jupiter]

Love this forum. There's too many people making money off of it being illegal. Judges, lawyers, police, politicians, councelers, the list goes on and on. What would those ppl do if drugs were legal? Get real productive jobs that actually contribute to society? I'm not sure they can. And what about property forfitueres? Scarry stuff. And incentives for the police to lie. It's all about a ruling class dictating the behavior of everyone else, with no middle class. I challenge everyone to check out the libertarian point of view. http://www.lp.org/ I wish pot could be legal. Came close a few times. But the truth is, there would be no way to tax it. Too many ppl could grow it in their backyards. How do you tax that? But to make marijuana illegal has made criminals of many, many folks. The US locks up more of it's citizens then any other "free" country. War on drugs is a joke. Give me a f**cking break!

[Guest]

Long story short, because making drugs legal would piss off way more people than it would please.



The pro-drug community is TINY compared to the anti-drug community. Not
only that, but the anti-drug people are way more likely to be
registered, active voters. How many drug users do you know who vote in
every election, write letters to their representatives, all that? We
don't have a coherent lobby, and the D.A.R.E. people do; that's the
problem.



Personally, I think legalized/decriminalized marijuana is only about a
generation away from happening in the U.S. As for psychedelics, they
are way further away from being openly tolerated, probably not in our
lifetimes -- but maybe someday.



Everything else, you can pretty much get by prescription.

[Dreeker]

Druggss are bad. Mkkaaay???

[Dreeker]

But acutally legalizing weed would be bad, the tobacco companies would pump it full of nicotine to get us addicted that we couldnt stop


Decriminalize minor (&gt;1 oz) completely


less than4 ozsthey should just ticket you and take the substance


more than a pound would be drug trafficking (4oz-lb would be something in between, maybe like bigger fine)

[sunyata]

I think woodman is probably right, there's a large industry connected to illegal drugs, both private and official, mind you I'm not talking about an industry to sell drugs, but an industry connected with denoting drugs and hunting people who have anything to do with it. Think about all the private organizations who get money from both the government and "concerned" citizens, to go into schools, sports organizations and whatnot, to tell kids not to do drugs. How many people do you think earn money this way and have it as a regular job?


Not to mention the DEA who has the right to confiscate money and property from people connected to drugs.


It's also a beautiful smokescreen for the government, like "society is falling apart because of drugs," instead of the more proper "society is falling apart due to our poor management of it". It also gives an excuse for increased citizen control, create a crisis and the general population will not only be willing to give up their freedom, they'd demand it be taken away. But I think this might change since they don't need to use drugs as an excuse anymore, terrorist threats will be more than sufficient for this, and then they can in addition make a shitload of money of drugs.


Do you really want major companies like the tobacco companies to sell you your weed, speed, heroin, LSD or whatever? I think they might be worse than street dealers, they'll add all sorts of bad shit to it, just to get you hooked. Maybe I'm being to paranoid, but look at western history, when was the last time a government of any western country did anything else than fuck people in the ass and apologize for it a couple of generations later, when it no longer mattered. Believing in a good government, to me, is like believing in Santa Claus, it's not him, it's an asshole with a cheap mask.

[Elmothechemist]

Hmmmmm very interesting response,....everyone I believe is right to one extent or another,.........I feel drugs are illegal mainly for the fact that they (especially pyscoactives) ask all people including those that prohibit their use. Why? Drugs and politics and Society have been fighting over Why questions and problems thoughout the history of time. What's really interesting is I believe everything in this life including drugs, their effects, the war on drugs, war, peace, and all other things trickle down to a BIG Catch 22 where in reality we live in a system of self-less-ness rather than self-ish-ness. You see everyone who lives life in it for themselves eventually find out that without giving to others or others giving to them, they are nothing and will recive nothing in life. So really drugs being illegal is just a nesisary negative force trying to stopthe posistive force of how drugs sometimes ask they're users and prohibitors to look at how we as human beings treat each other and how weas human beings can treat each other the way we wanna be treated.

[ColdEmbrace]

I don't know if this was mentioned before, because im lazy and skipped
the first page, but prohibition, i beleive is quite obviously an easy
form of social control. When pot first became illegal in north america,
it was because of the hispanic population. Then take a look at who was
using it in the 40s - jazz musicians. then hippies, then the birth of
stoners, and the whole hip hop culture. The elite sitting up in there
fucking tower... *mumble mumble*. to quote bill hicks "...the drugs
that might open your mind up to realise how you're being
fucked every day of your life? Those drugs are against the law..."

[Lacognac69]

This is quite an interesting topic. I agree with many of the postings here. Obviously there is never gonna be a clear answer to this topic. I believe that today politicians are all about pleasing the majority of people. It is very unfortunate that the majority of americans (among others) are totally brainwashed about drugs. The reputation of many drugs is just insane. In my opinion there are many people with positions in the government in any country that certainly wouldn't have a problem with partaking in many of the drugs that are illegal. George Bush was of course involved with cocaine during his college years and who knows what else. If i myself were to become a part of the government, i don't believe there would be much i could do to change the way things are and if i was running for a position and wasn't against drug use i wouldn't get elected. In my honest opinion PEOPLE ARE DUMB AND IGNORANT!! There is nothing sadder than living a life of ignorance. Unforntunately half the world will believe anything that a supposedly trustworthy source (government) tells them

[brainwaxd]

drugs are illegal because they have to be... they have become an entity in and of themselves... drugs have all the attraction that other blackmarket contra-band possess, and in the U.S. at least, they have become a wayfor the conservative Right to discredit the black and minority populations.


The actual question should be why is drug use illegal?


And should addicts without drugs be treated as criminals or as hospital patients?

[Hyperreal]

No. It doesn't make sense to say drugs are illegal so the government can make money. Governments make extraordinary amounts of money from taxing alcohol and nicotine products and they'd make a lot more if other drugs were legal

[William_Again]

I just find it funny that somehow the human race has survived for
what...22,000 years (I may be off on that its been a while since I
looked that one up) with no drug laws all the while substances were
being abused and used (granted that some were not around until
recenlty). But its is simply this - people will use and abuse
substances from now until the end of time whether they are legal or not
so I think there has to be a compromise from both sides of the argument.



Also I read a report online a while ago that stated that since the
netherlands legalized pot and what not hardcore drug use and softcore
drug use has steadily declined...can anyone confirm this or disprove it?

[Lacognac69]

After some deeper thought I feel that drugs are illegal in order to keep society moving forward. I'm not sure if anyone has touched on this yet. It seems like a couple people somewhat have actually. Anyway it seems to me that if drugs were more available and legal that people would tend to partake too much and frankly would care more about people than technology, and if enough people got into this mindset society would probably not be where it is at today. SO to me it seems like drugs are illegal because of a force bigger than the government.

[sunyata]

If you consider technological advancement to be the only forward motion.... If people cared more about people than technology we might discover something usefull instead of just finding ways to make better TV's and such.


Besides, part of the attraction of drugs are that they are illegal. I think that if they were legal most people would use them in a responsible manner, at least if they got the right info on the dangers and how to use responsibly. It can be a dangerous thing to let laws replace common sense, if people get used to just following the rules instead of using their own brains it won't take long before we're in the samesituation we were in from 1939-45, and with todays technology I don't think that would go so well. Or maybe I'm wrong, it's late.

[Hyperreal]

I don't think any of the explanations put forward so far on this thread really cover the issue. It's a lot more complicated than people seem to realize.


I think drugs are illegal because those in power honestly view them as evil and destructive. The conventional moraity of modern society is confused, hypocritical and circular. Drugs are seen as some sort of cop-out, a cheap or dishonest way of escaping 'reality'. Nearly anyone I've talked to on the subject (people from both sides of the debate)has the underlying, unquestioned idea that taking drugs is 'an escape from reality'. People mistake normailty for reality. As my username sugests, I put little stock in such notions, nor do I see why 'reality' is preferable to an alternative. But these ideas are so deeply ingrained in public consciousness that very few people ever question them

[dr ACE]

well sad hyperreal that sums up the whole situaiton very well with regards to western politics Edited by: dr ACE

[manda]

In certain amounts the hard ones can fuck u up 4ever or kill ya.

[William_Again]

They're so many addicting bad things in this world, gambeling, drugs,
alcohol, guns, sex (in certain cases), food, etc...the list goes on...I
am so surprised by the amount of attention drugs get when more people
die of Alcohol related deaths in the US than all of the drug related
deaths combined every year, same goes for tobacco. I personally don't
think we should legalized everything but...who knows...as time goes on
things will change, society appears to be getting more liberal and more
aware, laws will change for drugs and so will treatment...hopefully for
the better.

[Lacognac69]

ya, this is certainly not any easy question to answer. Although i don't really agree with the governements motives for keeping drugs illegal, i do believe that drugs should be restricted like alcohol, tobacco, etc. Things such as cocaine and heroin can definitely get people addicted and fuck up their lives more so than other "longer lasting" highs. Psychadelics are much different than coke and heroin being that they actually open your mind up and allow you to think in a way you never have before. This should be a legal thing to do if you are prepared for it, but young kids i don't think could necessarily handle this, so i kinda agree with the regulation. Then again if everything was legal and information was readily available to warn you about the potential hazards then you should be able to decide what you do. If you do not want to be a productive part of society then that should be your choice.

[Inferno13]

Even if drugs were legal, can you imagine the break-ins, the possible rioting to steal these drugs from where they are sold at.. That would be interesting if stores that sold them ever had stock for very long- either getting bought up or ripped off would be my guess...


I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with this. Look at different countries with much more lax laws on substances. They don't have nearly the addiction rate nor do they have the same problems with crime that one might expect to be associated with legalized substances. My theory is, if something like pot were ever legalized, I think there would be a large increase in usage as everyone enjoys the idea of legalized pot followed by a steady decline in use. People will just get tired of it. It will become more commonplace and less and less people will want to do it as it slowly integrates with our society (much in the way that alcohol has). I think that people who don't really appreciate pot for what it does (aside from it's relaxing features) will not maintain interest in it. But who knows, if major tobacco corporations get ahold of pot if it is legalized, imagine the chemicals that will go into it. Nicotine will be a part of that for sure. So who knows what life would be like with legalized drugs, just looking at pot as an example.Edited by: Inferno13

[morrison]

Truth be told drugs are illegal because of minorities. You see, back in the day when drugs were legal, they would become very prominent in everyday society, so much so that Coca Cola and many elixers of the day and cough medicines did actually contain a decent quantity of cocaine. The caucasion persuasion liked it so mcuch and w/energy burst it gave they figured out if they fed it to the african slaves they had working the docks they could then get more work out them in longer sessions. At first things went well, until of course the slaveds got crazed and began attacking and raping the mothers, sisters and daughters of slave owners. How convenient.


This holds true for ohter drugs that started out legal. Weed was the mexicans, opium was the mongs.


A bit of trivia-Sigmund Freud was one of the firfst cocaine addicts. I'm sure with a little research you will seehow thegovernment was able to do this, when a big part of the truth was that white middle class people were the ones deveolping addictions. Peace out ya-allll@!!!!

[DrugPhreak]

If drugs where legalized most legal systemswould cease to exist. Approximately 80% of crime is drug related in the <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>US</st1:place></st1:country-region> and the government/big businesswants to keep it that way. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[billbong]

IMH the government likes to control what u can and cannot do. I think the vast majority of ppl brake the law almost daily, be it speeding or buying fags for under age kids. Also the government needs to find ways of wasting your tax money. Why waste millions on drug operations when it could be spent on education. I think if the government was a little more realistic with it's laws there wouldn't be so much crime. So much pointless damage and vandalism. Like the rediculous amount of speed cameras. I don't really know where i'm going with this just felt like a rant.

[SomeOne]

The subject of this thread is a titbit more complicated than most american members of this forum suspect.

This was a post by scarmani at the-Hive Couch on 14 Nov 2004, and it fits in this thread's subject perfectly :

Drugs are Illegal to Prop Up the US Dollar</font>

My take is that drugs are illegal because the flow of "dirty money" is necessary to support the US economic system and sustain the dollar regime. There is a definite intimate connection between Wall Street, the CIA, and drug trafficking :

1) The list of top individuals in Wall Street reads like a list of former top officials in the CIA.

2) Almost everywhere the CIA / US Military has gotten heavily involved in the last few decades, there are either drugs or oil involved.

Examples:
Vietnam (golden triangle heroin),
Balkans (NATO backed the Al Qaeda affiliated KLA, which smuggled 70% of heroin for European market),
Afghanistan (the Taliban had virtually eliminated heroin production by repression; Afghanistan was supplying 70% of global heroin before the repression, and is doing the same recently again under the warlords);
and of course Columbian druglords and FARC.

3) Wall Street relies on narcodollars to a profound degree.

This is not a new story: much of the British empire's economy depended on the drug trade (tobacco, opium, alcohol, coffee, tea, etc.) and many wars were fought over drugs.
Wallstreet connections to the drugtrade (http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/wallst-drugtrade.htm)

By most estimates, the illegal drug trafficking industry ranks among the largest economic sectors in the world.</font>

____________________________________ ______________
"By any standards, the criminal narcotics industry ranks among the wealthiest and most powerful multinational business conglomerates in the world, grossing an estimated $500 billion a year. (Other estimates run as high as $1 trillion) To put this into perspective, U.N. Secretary General Koffi Anan recently claimed that the illegal narcotics industry is greater than the global oil and gas industry and twice as large as the overall automobile industry."
The illegal narcotics industry (http://www.csis.org/tnt/tasknarc.cfm)
____________________________________ ______________</font>

Given that much of the wealth generated through this industry is put into liquid, dollar denominated assets and financial instruments; and given that major transnational corporations and US banks are deeply dependent on business related to laundering these profits... it is hard to concieve that the government would adopt rational drug policies.

Just consider: If drugs were decriminalized (or legalized), their street value would collapse to a miniscule fraction of current levels and one of the world's largest industries would utterly collapse. The truly massive flow of liquid cash through the US economy and financial markets would dissapear, and probably cause a liquidity crisis. (How do you think the US has managed to sustain such large and growing debts while keeping interest rates so low?)

Can you imagine that the US government would do anything that would effectively destroy the Oil and Gas industry? Or the Automobile industry? If not, then it is even more difficult to concieve that the US government would end the drug war, and thus the criminal narcotics industry.

The story of the late 20th and early 21st century is not a story of individual aspirations or democracy. It is a story of the physics of capital.</font>


CIA, Drugs, and Wall Street

Contributing Editor Catherine Austin Fitts, who was a Managing Director at Dillon Read before becoming Assistant Secretary of Housing under George Bush and who holds an MBA from Wharton makes things very simple. She points out that the four largest states for the importation of drugs are New York, Florida, Texas and California. She then points out that the top four money laundering states in the U.S. (good for between 100 and 260 billion per year) are New York, Florida, Texas and California. No surprise there. Then she rips the breath from your lungs by pointing out that 80 per cent of all Presidential campaign funds come from - New York, Florida, Texas and California.

Civics test: Who are the current governors of Texas and Florida? (Note: this article was written in 1999)

From The Wilderness has been working on a story for an upcoming issue that will show conclusively, using testimony of law enforcement officers and U.S. Government records, that Dominican drug gangs, who dominate the trade in the northeast United States - especially New York and Pennsylvania - have been making regular campaign donations to the Clinton-Gore-Democratic camp since the early 90s. California drug sales are currently split between Democratically allied crime factions and entrenched hard core Republican strongholds from the Reagan era. People who shudder at the thought of the Chinese buying into presidential politics would choke if they knew how much drug money was involved.

Why? Again, the answer is simpler than you might think. While the Department of Justice estimates that $100 billion in drug funds are laundered in the U.S. each year, other research, including research material from the Andean Commission of Jurists cited by author Dan Russell in his soon to be published book Drug War place the figure at around $250 billion per year. Catherine Austin Fitts places the figure at $250 to $300 billion. Given the fact that the UN estimated that in the early 1990s world retail volume in the illegal drugs was $440 billion, $250 billion seems about right. Fitts, using her Wall Street experience as an investment banker is then quick to point out that the multiplier effect (x6) of $250 billion laundered would result in $1.5 trillion dollars per year in U.S. cash transactions resulting from the drug trade. How many jobs does $1.5 trillion represent? Why do President's get re-elected? As Bill Clinton's staff recognized in 1992, "It's the economy -Stupid!"

During the Contra years, when the CIA and Bill Clinton were swimming in cocaine, and Arkansas became the only state in the Union to ever issue bearer bonds (laundry certificates), employment in Arkansas rose to an all time high because there was so much money floating around. So what if they don't count all the dead bodies like two young boys Kevin Ives and Don Henry, shot, bludgeoned and dismembered on a railroad track after witnessing CIA drug drops. "It's the economy - Stupid!"

The CIA and their drugtrading (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/dontblink.html )

[jkolt89]

In the US, Drugs were originally made illegal to slow down the immigration of certain ethnic groups. California was the first state to make a drug illegal. The drug was opium and this was in the late 19th century. This was an effort to slow down Asian immigration into the US. The drug was only illegal if one was Asian. US citizens could still use it without fear of law enforcement

[Evil GIR]

Ok so I havent had time to read all of the post but here is what i think.

Drugs where made illegal partly because of Racism as all the blacks, Mexicans or other so called undesirable where smoking pot and taking coke to work hard through the day.

So whats the best way to get rid of people ya dont like ?
Make somethign they do illigal, I think the same could be said of all the hippys.
They where a pain in the goverments ass so LSD became illigal.

The other reason is down to god, jesus or what ever according to them getting high is moraly wrong the same as drinking or having sex for fun, doing thoes things suposadly make jesus pissed.

The last reason is pollitical, the DEA makes too much money by gerting cash of the goverment and seized land, drugs and cash from so called criminals. Not forgetting by brain washing the general public you can then play the whole lets get tough on drugs card and get extra voters on your side.

Drugs are not illigal because of the health problems, because if it was then why dose the goverment throw users away and treat them as theifs adn murderours by locking em in a cage with little help or support over the so called drug problem.

[Agent Orange]

The 'war on (some) drugs' was proclaimed in the 70's by Nixon (among others) - just like the 'war on cancer'..
The consequence have not been less use of the intended drugs, or decline in cancer, for that matter.
However, the illegality of (some) drugs - (as well as the banning of many effective cancer treatments) has lead to many good ways of income for the authorities, esp. intelligence and other systems, higher up in power than the 'politicians' and the police.

(I think the police and the judicial system would actually be happy to not have to bother with simple users, whether they be pot-heads or junkies.
The problem, I think, is the enormous incomes for the powers that be (above the political level), like the banking elite or the corporate tops. not to mention that some of the wars going on (like Afghanistan and also Balkan and South America, are creating big money for the real Terrorists, behind the more recent 'war on terror', which is actually a way to get a better control on money, people - the whole game...

The bandits have the real power, and the rich are getting richer Just think about the people created by the fortunes made during prohibition, and still controls so much of the world !!!

A sane policy of Rx limited access to good drugs, like psychedelics (and other good treatments of sundry mental/neurological problems), with necessary access to beneficial stimulants, tranquilizers and painkillers, should be sought.
But, even Big Pharma generates more money, from people using their illegal drugs, or using their approved and patented rat poisons..

Their is so much more to be said, but the main thing to remember is that 'sanity' is not highly regarded in these times,of depravity,and belief in money and 'power'...
---
Money is the most addictive drug of all, -and the most devastating.