Benzodiazepine Withdrawal

[Apradavra]

I think have seizured from coming off of xanies, or at least, benzos, I had one right when i woke up one morning (i wouldnt even had known i seizured, it felt like a bad dream, i woke up very agitated though), my girl brought me to the hospital where i had anotherseizure right beforethey discharged me.Right after I took my papergown off and my street clothes back on, i dropped into a second seizureright in front of the nurse who told me i was having night terrors.This meant I had to stay the night without insurance, I owe thousands for MRI's, EKG's, CatScans, ect.... When i went in there, they drug tested me and found "large amounts of opiates and THC" in my urine. They checked my arms for tracks, but i dont really use needles. The night before i ate sevral hundred mg's of mscontin or OC, i dont remember. But no benzos, well, after my second seizure i woke up strapped to a bed freaking out, like i was ina bad trip, machines boring down over my head, lights all over every crevice of a single white room, AND I WAS STRAPPED TO A BED,(i hate being held down)SO,I broke free from the bed i was strapped to, tore the IV out of my arm, and thenappearently a female nurse tried to strap me back down, i fucking cold cocked her...http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif...I remember none of this. I hate to fight, and i would never hit a female..it is just one thing i would never do. The way ifound outthis happendwas from eye witness accounts whichweretold to me after i regained consciences.The Dr's understood, they explained how guys get aggressive where women tend to get unresponsive from the disorientation after seizuring. It took four times the amount of Ativan (IV)to calm me down than it would have taken to knock out most men of my size, and i never lost conscienceness, i just mellowed a bit, the Docs couldnt figure out how my tolerance to benzos was so high....duh....They gave me one dose, it did nothing, gave me another, it did nothing, they then told my girl they were goin to sedate me, and the third "double dose" just calmed me. I was never told that the benzoscould ofpossibly beenthe cause of my seizures, although i never offered the info. Also, when i knew i had to go to the hospital, i grabbed several 10mg methadone i had around the house, that way i wasnt opiate withdrawling while in the hospital too...http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif Either way, after all the ativan and anti-seizure meds, i didnt seizureany more in the hospital and haventsince then, and am still on Kepra (anti-siezure).I was initially put onDilantin, which is like the tylonol of siezure meds, it sucks, does not work well, but most people dont have adverse reactions and its cheap,as well asit lowers methadone levels worse thanmost any other meds on themarket. Glad I am nolonger on dilantinSo here i am, stilltakingKepra, it works really well, i cant feel it in my body, but it is pricey.($400 A MONTH!!!!)


My question is I am still using opiates and benzos. I plan to ween off the opes with methadone, such as i have done many times, but to get off the xanax, what should i do. Switch to a longer acting benzo? (Valium) or a shorter acting one such as Ativan, i have supplies to both..Any info, experiences, ideas, anything at all would help,


thanks much guys, this is the fourth time i had to write this, my comp wont let me copy it, and it doesnt want to be posted as a new thread, I hope it works this time...


Apradavra

[nooo]

listen man, ive been exactly what u went through. and ive seen addiction and read the studies. no meth man. thats a joke, and i dont reccomend it but the xanax, i went off that cold turkey after going through a binge where i ate my prescription, my moms and my dads in like 10 days.


cold turkey withdrawing from xanax is one of the most dangerous things, but honestly. if u are not risking death and going through the most painful withdrawal u can, u will most definetly go back to it.


Just bite the bullet man and stop everything, dont go to a any clinics, and dont do any 12 step bullshit, there is not a shred of evidence that 12 step works, the return rate is identical to those who just quit on their own.


just stop everything except marijuana, u will grow to love her.


THIS WILL BE EXTREMELY PAINFUL.

[nooo]

oh and i had a dystonic muscle reaction to the copezine that they gave me to stop my throwing up, try 4 hours of every volintary muscle in your body contracting as tightly and intensely as they can. i also didnt sleep for like 5 days. no one ever will understand how insane xanax withdrawal is unless they go through it. its one of three drugs that will kill you withdrawing, but hey like i was saying, without pain u arent gonna learn. i dont see how anyone could use again after going through a hardcore benzo withdrawal.

[Micklemouse]

DO NOT COLD TURKEY ON BENZO'S! Sorry for shouting, but this is important. Find a sympathetic doc, or better still an Addiction unit, and do it properly. Benzo's should be withdrawn gradually if they've been used regularly and at high doses - a reducing regime is the safest way to do it. It takes time, but if you're truly ready to kick it you will, but support is vital.

I hear what you're saying about the 12 Steps Nooo, but there are many factors involved in the cycle of addiction and relapse, the main ones being the readiness of the individual to quit, the circumstances surrounding the withdrawal(if someones going to NA just as part of their probation or to get family off their back then there's a good chance that they'll relapse; if they're doing it to genuinely change then their chances of success are better); their general life and social circumstances(has the individual widened their circle of 'friends' to include non-users? has the individual addressed the issues that led to the addiction in the first place?); the list of variables goes on... For many people the support that comes with 12 Step programmes is vital to their recovery, and although I have a problem with some of the philosophy and the religious slant, if it works, it works!

On a side note, sorry to hear about the dystonia - sucks, doesn't it? The prescription of old school antipsychotics in a non-clinical setting and without access to an anti-cholinergic such as Procyclidine or Benxhexol is such bad practice, especially if the patient is new to antipsychotics - EPSE's are extremely uncomfortable, and potentially very dangerous. The maxim 'Know your drug' stands equally with pharms, and there is a dual responsibility between the doctor and patient to check the suitability of the med to the patient, and potential 'side-effects' and how to deal with them. Make your doctor do his/her job properly!

[purplehaze]

I know for a fact that coming off xanex can cause seizures my mother has them all the time she needs to either stay on them or off and she has been to the hospital and they tryed to say shes eptileptic or whatever i know shes not because when they wrote her phenobarbital she took it and totally triped out and if u were eptileptic (sp?) it would just fix the amount of something in your brain. forgot what its called. anyways, payce.

[Gahaba22]

Micklemouse said it correctly. If you feel you can't go to an addiction doctor, then the best way to wean yourself off xanax (mid-acting) benzo is to switch to valium (long-acting) benzo. The same principle that is used for heroin (short) and methadone (long). I would suggest seeing a doctor for the correct stepdown dosages

geeb

[Apradavra]

thanks Gahaba22,


I am switching to Valuim, and as i said, i am on an anti-seizure med, I dont want to cross tolerance myself, so i am not taking any Valium until I am out of the Xanies. Its sad i just cant quit til theyre all gone, but i guess accepting addiction is step number one to ending it. But the 12 step program is a bit to religious based for myself as well. Religion is a great and powerful part of millions of people's lifes, but its just not for me, not at this moment in my life, maybe sometime, not now...who knows? I never thought i would be addicted to benzos and Opiates three years ago...life sure is teaching myself a few reality lessons.....


Micklemouse,


Your commentsare taken very seriouslyby myself, you have large amounts of knowledge to share, and i thank you for your willing to share of thisknowledge. Would Ativan be of any help, i just feel as though Xanax has the worst DW's for me, and they seem to build tolerance more quickly than any other benzo. But damn i love Aprozolam with my Opiates....man i suck.... Either way, my weaining period will be in several days, I will first lower my Xanies dose, til they are gone, then switch to valium, i have cold turkeyed of huge amounts of valium before, and didnt have many side effects (I didnt seizure) So i think that is my best plan. I cant go to inpatient, or outpatient, I am still in the clostet pretty well, and coming out wuoldnt be to good of an idea as of now, if i can do this without many people knowing i had been/am addicted, the better....any more info would be much much appreciated....


thanks so much guys, you literally are life savers.....


Apradavra

[Benzhead]

Yeah, cold turkey off benzos is definitely dangerous.


If I was in your position, I'd find a sympathetic p-doc(psychiatrist). P-docs are often the reason people get addicted/dependent on benzos..it's called 'iatrogenic addiction' when a member of the medical establishment provides the chemicalmeansfor the addiction. Now that in and of itself isn't very helpful, but a good P-doc should be able to assess your particular needs better than any other clinician. In my case, a merely therapeutic dose turned into the benzo monkey currently hitching a ride. *sigh*


I'm honest with myself....I definitely have a habituation/dependency/addiction issue. This is due to the prescribing of Clonazepam for long term therapy in a 'contra-indicated' person(I have a prediliction for addiction which was known over a decade ago) *rolls eyes*


Nevertheless, I was put on Clonazepam for panic - along with Sertraline(Zoloft) for recurrent major-depression. My particular situation was one where I only achieved minimal relief from my anxiety disorder form an SSRI. I only offer this as historical data.


A psychiatrist that treats concomittant addiction with an underlying condition - should one be found to exist - could be your best hope.


If you think that this is a direction you may want to consider, try and get a referral.....This makes the initial 'feeling out' process a lot easier.


I have to run. I'll check back in a day or two.


(given my history, I knowp-docs aren't a cure-all, but they can be helpful when other medical practitioners are overwhelmed..If you find a good one)


Best of success!


T


On Edit: With me, my situation was pretty out of control until I received decent medical care. Ihave walkedmuch ofthe pathyou now find yourself walking. Edited by: benzhead

[aMorphius]

A tough part of slow benzo withdrawl is the last part when you are down
to just a small dose per day. Even Valium won't last untill the next dose
and the withdrawl symptoms will kick in each day. A really long lasting
benzo is clonazepam (Klonopin?). It will last through the day so you can
make that next small dose and slowly reduce the dose untill you are off
this shit for good. Just my humble persoanl experience. Good luck!

[formerfiend]

I dont know why but i quit benzos cold turkey and didnt notice any extreme withdrawl. I took1mg klonapin everyday for about 8 months, often taking as much as 4-6mg when i wanted to be even less anxiousif you know what i mean.The one thing i will sayis i may have been an as$hole to people for a week or 2, but no phsycial effects. I also take Ambien nowwhich i do notlike running out of. I quit benzos cold turkey and im much happier without it for the most part, i know theyre bad drugs.That being said i also quit crack cold turkey, well iwent to rehab for 2 weeksand smoked alot of pot but.....anyway is klonapin less addictive than other benzos b/c if thats as bad as the withdrawl was id compare it togoing without ciggarrettes for anylong period of time, just makes u on edge...

[Nicaine]

Benzo withdrawals vary from person to person, but with Klonopin it can take from 3 days to a week for symptoms even to start, because it's so long acting and blood levels get really high. It could theoretically take from a couple weeks to a month before symptoms get really bad, if they were going to. But some people have minimal or no withdrawal symptoms from Benzos, you're probably one of the lucky ones.

Just be aware, symptoms could start out of the blue and it could be very sudden, so I would keep something handy just in case (seizures are possible).

P.S. Ambien is very similar to benzos and there may be cross-tolerance...

While zolpidem is a hypnotic agent with a chemical structure unrelated to benzodiazepines, barbiturates, or other drugs with known hypnotic properties, it interacts with a GABA-BZ receptor complex and shares some of the pharmacological properties of the benzodiazepines.

that may be preventing withdrawal symptoms from the K. (but it's hard to tell).Edited by: Nicaine

[BlueMystic]

Count yourself luckyand in the fractional percentage of people if you don't experience any extremely negative withdrawal symptoms from quitting a benzo cold turkey. However, I would also like to reiterate the above advice about keeping something on hand. Since extreme and sudden withdrawal symptoms can manifest themselves a relativey long time after one stops taking benzo's. Good luck!

[skitz0frantic]

http://www.benzo.org.uk/images2/withdrawal2.jpg

[skitz0frantic]

LIST OF WITHDRAWL SYMPTOMS FROM BENZOS


DOUBLE VISION


TIRED EYES


BLURRED VISION (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/blurredvision.htm)


SCREWING UP OF THE EYES


TENSION BETWEEN THE EYES


RAPID BLINKING OF THE EYES


DIZZINESS


AGITATED SIGHT-LOSS OF CONTROL OF THE MOVEMENT OF THE EYES


PUPILS IN THE EYES BECOME MINUTE


IRIS IN THE EYES CHANGE COLORS


WAVES, SPARKS AND FLASHES OF LIGHT


<A href="http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/lights.htm" target="_blank">HYPERSENITIVITY TO LIGHT AND
SOUND AND SMELL</A>


SEEING SPOTS


TOTAL LOSS OF CONFIDENCE


FEAR OF BEING ALONE


THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS THAT YOU ARE DYING


RAPID MOOD CHANGES


INSOMNIA (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/insomnia.htm)


LOSS OF CONCENTRATION


LOSS OF INTEREST IN PEOPLE AND THINGS


INABILITY TO READ


DYSPHORIA (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/dysphoria.htm)


FEELING OF VULNERABILITY


REPETITIVE THOUGHTS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/repetitive.htm)


A FEAR OF INSANITY


A FEELING OF IMPENDING DOOM


DEMENTED AND MURDEROUS THOUGHTS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/thoughts.htm)


IRRATIONAL RAGE (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/rage.htm)


LOSS OF SELF RESPECT


DEPRESSION


ANXIETY (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/anxiety.htm)


PARANOIA (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/paranoia.htm)


UNUSUALLY DISTURBED AND SENSITIVE (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/disturbed.htm)


PHOBIAS


FEAR OF LOSING CONTROL


DE-REALISATION (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/de-realisation.htm)


SPEECH DIFFICULTIES


DIFFICULTY IN WRITING SLOWLY


INABILITY TO WRITE (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/writingproblems.htm)


DISORIENTATION


INABILITY TO COMPHREHEND THE SIMPLEST OF THINGS


OBSESSIVE BEHAVIOUR


FEAR OF WATER (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/water.htm)


HYSTERICAL AND INNAPPROPRIATE LAUGHTER


NIGHTMARES


LOSS OF MEMORY


<A href="http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/spirit.htm" target="_blank">FEELINGS OF THE SPIRIT BEING OUT
OF SYNCHRONISATION WITH THE BODY</A>


SUICIDAL FEELINGS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/suicidal.htm)


AGORAPHOBIA (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/agoraphobia.htm)


DEPERSONALISATION (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/depersonalisation.htm)


BRAIN MOVING WITHIN THE SKULL (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/brainmoving.htm)


INABILITY TO COPE WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION


HALLUCINATIONS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/hallucinations.htm)


VERTIGO


TIREDNESS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/tiredness.htm)


LEGS, ARMS AND HEAD VERY HEAVY (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/heavylimbs.htm)


PARESTHESIA (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/parathesia.htm)


EXERCISE INTOLERANCE (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/exercise.htm)


SEVERE MUSCULAR RIDGIDITY ALL OVER (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/musclesridgid.htm)


MUSCULAR WEAKNESS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/muscleweakness.htm)


MUSCLE WASTAGE


ACHING JOINTS AND MUSCLES (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/muscleaches.htm)


RESTLESSNESS


RESTLESS LEGS IN BED AT NIGHT


SEVERE CRAMPING IN THE STOMACH


ELECTRIC SHOCK AND MUSCULAR SPASMS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/shocks.htm)


UNABLE TO WALK


ARMS AND LEGS FEEL DETACHED FROM BODY (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/detachedlimbs.htm)


GRINDING TEETH


INTENSE JAW PAIN (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/jawpain.htm)


JAWS CLAMPED TOGETHER (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/clampedjaws.htm)


NEURALGIA


PAINS IN THE NECK TO THE SHOULDER BLADES


TICKLING AND ITCHING FEELING OVER THE WHOLE BODY (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/itching.htm)


NUMBNESS, PAIN, PINS AND NEEDLES (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/numbness.htm)


SHARP THROBBING PAIN IN THE WRISTS


CLUMSINESS


LACK OF CO-ORDINATION


BUILDINGS APPEAR TO BE LEANING


LEGS FEEL LIKE JELLY (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/jelly.htm)


SWEATING (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/sweating.htm)


FEELING OF EXTREME COLD


NAUSEA


FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/flu.htm)


TIGHT BAND AROUND THE HEAD


INTENSE FUZZY FEELING IN THE HEAD


TINNITUS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/tinnitus.htm)


EARACHE


SINUS PROBLEMS


TWITCHING OF THE HEAD


FEELINGS OF WORMS UNDER THE SCALP


SEIZURES


PAINS IN THE TEMPLE


SEVERE HEADACHES


EXTREMELY NERVOUS AND JUMPY


HYPERACTVITY


PANIC ATTACKS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/panicattacks.htm)


FEELINGS OF SHAKING INSIDE AND OUT


HEAVY POUNDING OF THE HEART WHEN CLIMBING STAIRS


BREATHLESSNESS


OVER BREATHING


HEARTBURN


PAINS IN THE LUNGS


MISSED HEARTBEATS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/missedbeats.htm)


MILD HYPERTENSION (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/hypertension.htm)


PAINS IN THE CHEST (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/chest.htm)


IMPOTENCY


HAIR LOSS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/hairloss.htm)


PROBLEMS OF DECAYING TEETH AND GUMS


CRACKED AND SORE LIPS


ALLERGIES TO FOOD


SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALS AND ODORS (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/chemicals.htm)


METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH


EXTREME THIRST


SWALLOWING DIFFICULTIES


DRY MOUTH


FEELING BLOATED


DIAHORREA


CONSTIPATION


<A href="http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/rashes.htm" target="_blank">RASHES,BLOTCHES AND
BURNING SENSATIONS ON THE SKIN</A>


TOE AND FINGERNAILS CHANGE COLOR
FROM PINK TO GREY


SALIVA RUNNING FROM MOUTH WHILE SLEEPING


CUTS AND ABRASIONS TAKE WEEKS TO HEAL


SPEECH APPEARS TO BE TWO FEET IN FRONT
OF YOU WHEN SPEAKING


FLASHBACKS


BURNING SPINE (http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/burningspine.htm)





http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/symptoms.htm

[markdahman]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif hooolllaaayyyy! Sounds like fun!

[Nicaine]

Dunno, benzobusters looks like one of those hysterical, paranoid anti-benzo sites, that make benzos sound worse than the sludge inside a nuclear power plant.

Bunch of crap if you ask me, all it takes to get off benzos (even in worst-case addictions) is caution, logical/rational thinking and maybe another substance. Opiates may help, and their withdrawal symptoms are unpleasant but rarely dangerous. Or an anti-seizure med like Tegretol or Neurontin. There are always ways to sanely kick any substance.

Keep in mind most people on benzos have severe anxiety disorders. That sure is obvious from most of those anti-benzo websites floating around. Very long on fear-mongering and short on rationality.

When used wisely, benzos are good things. They prevent a lot of misery/suffering and help a lot of people live better and happier lives. From personal experience, I'd say abusing 'em is a bad idea though.Edited by: Nicaine

[daveman]

from what ive read about phenobarb the withdraws can cause siezures,
but who knows people are so biased when they post things sometimes.

[mark_v]

I took Lorazepam for about 5 months daily at dosages from 2.5 up to 10 mg.

But then i ran out of them and couldn't find or buy anymore, so i had to go cold turkey.

Pure hell, i tell ya ! http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif



After a week i felt that sic, i went to see a doctor and confessed him my selfmedication. Best thing I ever did.

So now i'm on a low dose of Valium and Dolmatil, and every 2 weeks my doctor lowers the dose.



I never thought i'd fall so deep and got addicted to those 'happy pills', but noone to blame but my own.



All i take now are my prescribed meds and sometimes a Zopiclone or some tramadol...

[Red_Baran]

i was eating up to 15 or more 10Mg Valiums, for about 7 months and quit cold turkey with min sideffects such as anger anda little depression. I also did the same thing with Xanax

[RemyLeBeau]

i took 8 ambien over the course of one night and i felt like di=ying for the next week, i'll never do it again my god the worst depression ever

[Chrislaub]

I know Xanax is big in Texas and a friend of my roommate took 20mg one night and hada seizure the next day from the withdrawls, but if your ass is dumb enough to take 20mg u deservea seizure.

[kuplo]

Well I hope I never have the need to up my dose to 20mg a day, Im at 10mg now, was just upped by my doctor from 6mg. Was told by a classmate in college that 10 and your like a zombie, I assume that means 10mg at one time (not going to happen to me, the most I take at one time is 4mg when I wake up), then 1mg after lunch, then 4mg in the evening. I talked to my doctor and told him that withi his current prescription of 3 or 4 a day I really wanted a drink at night, but have abstained (after drinking 750ml of whiskery almost every night for the past 3 years), as soon as I started to take the xanax I didnt want to drink anymore, for a while, now that he upped the dose of xanax to 10mg, the craving for a drink is gone again, been on them for 3 months now.

[tinogsx]

I never had a problem quiting benzos, opiates on the hand are another story.

[Yeahsme]

I've been on benzo's daily for the past 5 or 6 months and I can take 12mg(thats right 12mg) of xanax in about 5 or 6 hours or so and not feel a thing except further anxiety. I was taking 6mg of clonazepam every 4 hours about a week ago and somehow its fucked up my brain to this point. It was a very quick progression. It is a living nightmare and it seems like just yesterday that I was taking them once or twice a week. I'm telling you guys these drugs are from the devil himself...........Please don't move this thread to detox and recovery cause people need to know who are in active use.

Also in spring of '04 I had a grand mal seizure, quit breathing for 2 minutes, and almost had brain damage from about a 8mg a day habit of xanax. It took me hours after it happened to remember my name.

And I started in '04 taking .5mg of xanax once in a blue moon. These drugs(like all controlled substances) sneak up on you and take over your life. THEY ARE NOT CONTROLLED FOR NOTHING. And I'm a 28 year old man, and was not naive to the facts of what could happen if I used these drugs too often...............

[Pinkavvy]

this is an example of why people need to do their research and learn the safe way to use and not abuse certain substances. Research, knowledge, moderation is the key to successful and safe drug use.

[sands of time]

I agree with both of you guys. Swim would rather be addicted to heroin than xanax. A benzo addiction is especially bad because is can lead to further psychological problems.

[pharmapsyche]

It seems like someone who is addicted to Xanax would have a hard time remembering they were addicted. I say this just because if I took 12 mgs of alprazolam, I would lose 8 hours from memory.

[Yeahsme]

moderation is the key to successful and safe drug use.

But you see some people are born with DNA that doesnt allow moderation. If you are one of those people you know it, and if you have to even think about it then you WERE NOT born with this torturous addictive DNA..............

[scotty6435]

Some people have addictive personalities and some people have VERY addictive personalities. I can take downers and other substances no problems but I won't touch H or coke with a barge pole because I know the high will be just too good to resist.

[dopenose77]

yeahsme,

have you tried going to a doctor or getting help for this?

if you haven't been to this website yet check it out, they'll help you out.

http://benzoisland.org/index.html

[Richard_smoker]

Yeah, I agree with Sands when he said that he would rather be addicted to heroin than benzos. Why? Well, for one thing, there is one tiny little difference between heroin addiction and benzo addiction. a VERY significant little difference.

You can die from benzo withdrawal (seizures-->death), whereas with heroin, you will only wish you were dead. So, take your pick: cold shakes and the flu-symptoms vs. death.

In case anyone was wondering what other drugs cause death from withdrawal. The answer is.......... alcohol.

[sands of time]

I wonder if taking one of those GABA supplements woud help with benzo/alcohol withdrawals...

[jduba]

MUCH RATHER BE ADDICTED TO HARRY!!! Ive been through both H, Temazepam rehab visits as well as a meth/ crack stay... H sux only b/c 6 months later i tried to kick methadone and thats a BITCh but nothing like benzo addiction and withdrawl. I was put in a room where your just watched and they take your "vitals" 1000 times a day to make sure your not dead...YET. At times death is more of an option... funny thing is ive only drank like twice but like what was mentioned i hope i learned my lesson this last time on my 28 day vaca and just keep away from sub. yet i cant get away from the foums

[bewilderment]

Also in spring of '04 I had a grand mal seizure, quit breathing for 2 minutes, and almost had brain damage from about a 8mg a day habit of xanax. It took me hours after it happened to remember my name.



Did you have the seizure during withdrawals?

I used to have such a high tolerance to valium that I would have to take 120 mgs per dose in order to feel the typical effect. I'm curious about the seizure because I also had a grand mal seizure but I know that during that time period I was not taking valium regularly and it had been awhile since I had. This was about five years ago and I didn't know that valium withdrawal and seizures were linked...I can't remember, but I believe that I had either been taking a bit of valium or xanax that particular week, but I hadn't used excessively that week so any kind of withdrawal would be unexpected especially since I don't recall any major withdrawal symptoms when I initially quit taking valium. It's so strange to think that valium could've been the cause of it because that's what they put into the IV when I was in the ambulance.

[calmascanbe]

Back in 1993 when I had to go through a detox after a 20 year addiction to valium ,I would on occation feel like I was hit in the head with a baseball bat. I can't tell you what I would feel like today if I never had taken valium , but my life has not returned to any normalcy even after 10 years of being clean. Now I just self medicate because all a doctor will sugest is anti-depressants.
It also took 4 years before I could get any restfull sleep.I can tell you benzo's ruined my life ,even after a bad head injury.I hope I made some sense and worn people of the consequences of benzo's. I'm a lifer now and wish I wasn't.

[bewilderment]

^^

What sort of long term effects to you attribute to the valium? I took various benzos (almost soley valium, but also some xanax and ativan...ativan has caused quite a few blackouts as I hear it has a reputation for it) and painkillers heavily for 3-4 years, a small amount of time compared to 20 but still enough I feel. I remember having insomnia even as a kid, but I know that when I got off of the pills my insomnia worsened to where I would get about 7 hours of sleep a week. I also attribute this to antidepressants though because those always interfere with my sleep to the point where I want to quit taking them...and I have quit taken them at the moment for similar reasons although I'm trying to find safer OTC supplements to substitute but I highly doubt that they will be effective weapons against my illness. I figure it can't hurt to at least try. I'm over my addiction to pills since I no longer crave them and I can safely take them recreationally once every 3 months or so and it does not make me want to begin using them regularly once again. But, I do rely on cannabis for sleep as well as a mood lift but I believe this to be a MUCH safer alternative.

[calmascanbe]

I hope I'm not off topic But I do occationally use a toke for sleep(the wonder drug) I forgot to mention in my last post. Benzo's can ruin lives .The valium after effects are screeching ears ,dizzines ,sleeplessness and jerking.

[Pinkavvy]

But you see some people are born with DNA that doesnt allow moderation. If you are one of those people you know it, and if you have to even think about it then you WERE NOT born with this torturous addictive DNA..............

And no offense, but people who are born with these "addictive genetics" should not be consuming highly addictive substances.

[GDxCAT]

Can anyone show me any proff supporting the statement that there is addictive DNA.
i always thought of that as bullshit the 12 step programs were spewing. Trying to make you believe that addiction is a desiese rather than something one has control over.

[raven3davis]

SWIM agrees that ultimitely we as humans have complete control over what we do and what we injest. Some people might have genetic traits that make them more suseptible to addiction but drugs cant make you do them. SWIm feels for you and strongly recommends you get help. SWIM has had two friends who have had seizures from benzos and one of them is now in jail/rehab and the other is dead. Please seek medical attention and gain control of your addiction. Just think about SWIMs friends. It definitely sucks to be in rehab but it sure beats the hell out of being dead.

[calmascanbe]

We might have a choice to take control over our own bodies , but when the only help you can find is the bottle or the pill and doctors turn you away or give you something that only makes your life worse what's next? Jogging will help and controlled breathing will help but they only help to a point.Some of us only have self medication left.I wish it was a perfect world where everyone get's help and the problem is fixed.

[bewilderment]

^
Quite true, I'm learning what it's like at the moment to have a mood disorder yet not have insurance nor have extra monetary funds to pay for professional help. Although, I wouldn't say that I'm addicted to anything at the moment, I've had a few bad weeks were I could've used guidance or support from a therapist...that would only help so much, but it would be something.

[Nagognog2]

Talking to someone when you hit the blues is better than shoveling pills down your throat. Playing with psychotropics should only be for exploration purposes. Relying on them to keep you together is a fool's bet.

Seen it too many times.

[kemistudent]

Talking to someone when you hit the blues is better than shoveling pills down your throat.

Agreed! There are many hotlines you can call rather than self medicating. When I get in fights with my fiancee I feel like the world is going to end and then I call some random person and as akward as it seems, it helps, even if they lie to you. (long story)

As far as xanax, or any benzo withdrawl, I have to question why you are consuming that much it per day in the first place? Is it theraputic, or abuse?

For those of you saying that they would rather be addicted to heroin than benzo's, consider the fact that you can easily OD on heroin, where as the LD50 on most benzo's is some insane amount of medication. Just a different perspective :)

[kritikal]

My doctor would not give me Oxycodone Due to the fact that it is addictive and believed i would have withdrawal symptoms when i came off it.

However he had no problem chucking Paroxetine in my face.

And for my Pain he gave me Temazepam to Sleep and Diazepam to relax as well as Propoxyphene. All addictive meds.

Go figure.

I met a very interesting guy last night aswell. Me and SWIM were sitting on his front yard and SWIM was chasing a stick. A guy walking past said he could get him one and it would be a good size (turned out to be absoloutley puny but good bud none the less) When we were walking with him to get it we met up with some of his friends who were shooting up H at a Bus Stop! Thing is they were heating up through a plastic bag!?!?

Anyway back to the subject. This guy takes 100mg of Diazepam and says he feels barely anything. He goes to the docs to get it, they know he is addicted but they just keep given it to him!!! I dont see how they can do that, instead of trying to give him some treatment.

Hahaha i never knew my suburb was like this until last night lol!!

[bewilderment]

Can anyone show me any proff supporting the statement that there is addictive DNA.
i always thought of that as bullshit the 12 step programs were spewing. Trying to make you believe that addiction is a desiese rather than something one has control over.

It's pretty easy to find online, but here are a few articles supporting the claim:

http://gslc.genetics.utah.edu/units/addiction/genetics/index.cfm
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/genaddct.htm
http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000/symposia/files/053/index.htm
http://www.rxpgnews.com/research/psychiatry/substancemisuse/article_2493.shtml
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro06/web1/jpatzelt.html
http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2000/heroin-addictions-genetic.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4792618.stm

[Kamakazi]

What's all this about people popping benzodiazepines? Are you crazy?

There is such a thing as tolerance. This is when your body and mind stop reacting to a drug because you've taken too much too fast.

Hear this; benzodiazepines are the WORST drugs for tolerance known. In other words, tolerance develops very quickly. ONE DOSE will develop tolerance even in an infant, so the next dose has to be larger, and after some time (a few days in some people) there will no effect whatever you do.

I don't know how some of you get this stuff so you can pop it every day. But there's no point. Furthermore, I don't know what's so attractive about it. Unless you are in emotional or physical pain (PAIN mind you) there's no point! It's not a high. If you are prone to popping benzo's then you're suffering from some sort of hidden trauma or you are suicidal. See a doctor.

If you are already addicted then you are in a sorry state of affairs. Go to a rehab centre immediately would be my advice. I'm serious.

[Kamakazi]

One more thing...for those of you who enjoy benzos every now and then, and can put a lease on it, don't do it more than once a week, twice as an absolute maximum in cases of emergency.

[calmascanbe]

The problem is most of us are human and make bad mistakes. SWIM will do mass quantities to excape reallity. Mind you it is a rare occurance ,but when all the therapy and chemical therapy has done nothing or worse where do you turn .Swim wishes it could be different but it isn't yet.You can talk forever without results ,take other than benzos and be stuck in hell without .
suicide is no option.

[Richard_smoker]

Benzo's go with alcohol in terms of possibilities for severe reactions with attempted self-detox. One of the reasons that you must not try to get off either without the help of a medical professional is because of the risk of seizure and death from stopping either. They're both essentially the same when it comes to GABA and the effects from cessation of either.

Ironically enough, acute alcohol withdrawal is treated with benzos. But NOT a life-long prescription to benzos! it's just enough to get you 'over the hump.'

Same goes with benzo withdrawal. you get more benzo's during detox. why? to keep you from dying (again). the difference is that now you are being controled via symptomatology, not your cravings. These are both very difficult addictions to kick, even in the setting of acute medical intervention. Please be very careful with these substances. Trust your doctor. Let him take care of you, and for heaven's sake, don't try it on your own, and please don't go back to the drugs after you've gone through the trouble to detox. It doesn't ever get any easier to quit. -RS

[hh339]

I wonder if taking one of those GABA supplements woud help with benzo/alcohol withdrawals...

actually, yes! swim has had moderate success with gaba + inositol hexaniacinate + vitamins, not a "miracle-medicine" but still, it helped quite a bit!

OK, so swim had to take a few capsules to remember what its like. having been away from benzos for some time, swim can definitly say it creates a sense of well being. swim took 1,5 grams of gaba and 400 mgs of "hexaniate" with a large amount of multi-vitamin juice, and in no time at all he feels quite relaxed. not very intense, but definitly enjoyable!

warning: may not be safe with alcohol.

[Nahbus]

SWIM is perscribed 15mg Valium a day for anxiety. For SWIM, it's getting very hard to keep it down to 15mg a day. Usually SWIM will take a bare minimum of 15mg, but usually 20-35mg in a day. They definately don't have the same effect as they used to, especially with euphoria - which is non existant at this point. Anxiety is still controlled, but seems like the effects of valium are weakening.
SWIM never realizes how much he takes untill he counts them. He gets in "benzo-mode" and really doesn't care about tomorrows pills, and finds out he took 6 instead of his allowed 3.
But is SWIM addicted?
possibly.
SWIM has had periods of about 3-5 days of no benzos (to try and lower his tolerance), but near the 3rd or 4th day he gets way anxious and frustrated and angry and end up taking them.
Anyway, SWIM doesn't want to be hooked on benzos forever, but needs something for his anxiety. But then again, who is he kidding? The pills are staring him in the face, and SWIM always believes they will make him feel like superman, and they do- to an extent. Very hard to explain.. but it's like having no effect and total benzo-bliss at the same time. Maybe other benzo heads know what I mean?
Ah... just a rant. SWIM will pop another valium or two, though. He should try cutting back down to 15mg a day, maybe skip a day or two and indulge once every two weeks or something as a treat. We'll see. (anyone else in this situation of SWIMs?) Peace. Good luck everyone.

[calmascanbe]

If your tolerance is creeping up on you ,use the minimum dose for at least 3 days and you'll see a difference in the value of valium . I will admit some people can't wait that long and that should be the warning sign of a physical addiction.

[Nahbus]

SWIM will try and use his regular dose for 3 days and see how it goes. The only problem is when SWIM is in benzo mode, he just pops away!
(eek. He's already 6 days behind. Maybe he'll try taking the 3 a day for 3 days [or try not to take any unless absolutely needed. Carrying only 3 with him everyday], bring it down to 2 for a bit and maybe go a day or two without any untill SWIM catches up. SWIM wishes he had some sort of bank that only opened daily and administered his 3 valium, leaving the rest locked up. This theory leads me to believe SWIM is or is on his way to benzo addiction, so he should smarten up, lay off taking so many and get back on track and STAY there! Wish him luck everyone. Please.)

[calmascanbe]

SWIM knows the feeling ( NAHBUS ), it want's to do the same thing. Swim would like to use them all in 1 day. Hang in there , it can only make it better in the near future.

[Nahbus]

You are very correct. SWIM noticed when he's actually taking the perscribed doses that his anxiety is controlled better. When he takes more, some of his anxiety comes back, and he just walks like hes a drunk zombie who can't remember what he was doing all day.
I think SWIM will be ok. I will keep you guys updated with his progress, though!

EDIT:
Day 1: only one 5mg pill all day!
Day 2: two 5mg pills. Only 3-4 days behind now, depending on how many SWIM takes today (day 3). Effects feel almost the same as taking double this dose, anyway. This doesn't look like it will be a problem for SWIM :).

[smithdogg1]

I have heard on here multiple times that benzos can produce physical withdrawal symptoms after two weeks of daily use. My question is will this still happen if the doses are kept small and the medication is actually used “as prescribed”. For example will taking a small dose (0.5 mgs) of ativan every night for two weeks and then stopping produce physical withdrawals? I understand one might develop a dependence in this time and have trouble sleeping without it, but will they be physically addicted as well? Or do you have to be taking relativity large doses (2-4 mg range) a day to get physically addicted.

The reason I ask is because SWIM has insomnia, the type where it takes 2-3 hours to fall asleep because their mind can’t relax. SWIM often self medicates with ativan or xanax, but mainly ativan, and small doses work wonders to help him fall asleep. When his medical insurance kicks in he is thinking of seeing a doctor about the insomnia and trying to get on something for it. But he is also very scared of the possible addiction/dependence that may develop. SWIM considers himself a responsible drug user and does not want to have to take a pill every night in order to fall asleep, so he figures the best way would be to medicate like he has been in the past and only use them when it is taking forever for SWIM to drift off. It’s just a matter of self control, but it may become a lot harder for SWIM to resist taking that pill when he has a whole bottle of the stuff. FYI, currently SWIM usually takes an ativan 2 nights a week. And SWIM also does enjoy the recreational effects of benzos and will occasionally take 1mg of xanax to relax.

[upperdecker]

SWIM's just wondering this cause right now he is prescribed 3mg of Clonazepam a day and I've read that benzodiazepine withdrawal is one of the worst withdrawls one can have. So if SWIY has had the experience of coming off a benzo. what was it like? and for how long?

[Swimster]

although swim never had bezos related withdraws, he had heroin withdraws. The best way swim can explain it is: feels like you have a fever, but really really bad one. you know when you have a fever, and you are all dizzy, and feel crapy, this X100! you throw up, you feel like you are going to die, and so on...lol, try not to have one of these monsters eh?

Swim heard Benzos, and barbs, also GHB, GBL, etc, can present the worst! [these are phisical withdraws of coarse]

[_caesar_]

SWIM came accross this pretty disturbing video of a sever case of benzo withdrawal the other night.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?action=play&linkid=2549&catid=43&page=1

[radiometer]

^ Holy shit, I wonder how much that guy was taking daily?! That was truly terrifying.

Siezures are a common symptom if a proper taper is not observed.

A few years back, SWIM tapered from 1.5mg alprazolam a day over the course of several months. He was very careful and only experienced sudden lightheadedness (not fun while driving), rebound anxiety, and mild insomnia. However, he was concurrently using alcohol nightly at the same time. I can only imagine how much worse the insomnia might have been without the alcohol.

[upperdecker]

After seeing this SWIM is definitely gonna ask his doctor to take him off Clonazepam. SWIM thought coming off Paxil was hard, this makes that look like a piece of cake.

[radiometer]

I would suggest talking it over with your doctor with an open mind. You didn't mention why the clonazepam was prescribed. Benzos can be dangerous but they can also be a life-saver depending on the condition they are being used to treat. SWIM is not sorry for having been on alprazolam despite the difficult taper period.

[upperdecker]

SWIM is on Clonazepam for anxiety. Can SWIY please explain how SWIY's difficult taper period was like?

[radiometer]

I started to write a reply, but I don't think I can really describe it properly. One of the worse aspects was simply worry about what might happen, but as I said, he luckily had no major problems. He started by reducing each dose one at a time, and he would get some general anxiety as the lower doses wore off before it was time for the next one. As each new level became comfortable he would wait a few days and then make the next reduction. Once he was at 1/8 mg three times daily, he then slowly cut out one dose at a time.

The entire process took something like 2-3 months. Very important for him was that he allowed himself the possibility of going back to the previous dose level - he very seldom did so, but knowing that it was "OK" to do so helped psychologically. As the process went on, it became easier and easier, to the point that the timing of the final removal of the 1/8 mg doses was dictated by actually forgetting to take a dose, and then deciding "OK, I guess it's all right to cut that dose out now."

I suggest spending some time at this site:

http://benzo.org.uk/

Note that this is an anti-benzo site, not a neutral site, so take what you read there with a grain of salt.

[upperdecker]

I mean was the withdrawal physically/mentally bad? I thank you for your response but thats basically what I was asking. SWIM has been taking 3mg a day for idk, i guess 6 months. If SWIM were to taper down, would the withdrawal be bad? As I said, SWIM remembers coming off Paxil and it was a living hell, this is supposed to be 100 times worse.

[radiometer]

It wasn't too bad for SWIM. As mentioned previously, he had some anxiety when the lower doses would wear off, and he had a bit of insomnia in the mornings. To combat the insomnia, he would take his morning dose when he awoke, and go back to sleep while it kicked in. Remember also that SWIM was drinking nightly, and this almost certainly made the taper easier, however it is not a suggested route. He also would occasionally feel a bit lightheaded which was sort of frightening, but nothing came of it.

The other extreme can be seen in the video above.

I cannot predict what it will be like for SWIY, but 3mg daily is not a particularly heavy dose, and with some luck, SWIY might have a relatively easy time of it as SWIM did. At 6 months of daily use, SWIY should assume that he has a dependance and will need to taper. Do NOT go cold turkey, this is dangerous. Depending on his or her level of knowledge on this topic, SWIY's physician may or may not be in a position to give helpful advice on this, so SWIY may find it very fruitful to ask them these questions as well.

When tapering, SWIY should consider switching to diazepam. SWIM tried diazepam and it did not work for his issues thus he chose the hard route of tapering directly with alprazolam, but it is typical to use diazepam for tapering from benzos because of its very long half-life.

To get a flavor for what it's going to be like, SWIY could probably experiment with taking 1/2 of his normal dose once or twice.

SWIY should first pat themselves on the back for sticking to a fairly low dose and not causing tolerance issues by abusing the clonazepam. A very wise friend once told me that people taking benzos for anxiety should never take them for recreation, and vice versa.

[enquirewithin]

That clip above is horrible. He got that from prescribed drugs!

[upperdecker]

It wasn't too bad for SWIM. As mentioned previously, he had some anxiety when the lower doses would wear off, and he had a bit of insomnia in the mornings. To combat the insomnia, he would take his morning dose when he awoke, and go back to sleep while it kicked in. Remember also that SWIM was drinking nightly, and this almost certainly made the taper easier, however it is not a suggested route. He also would occasionally feel a bit lightheaded which was sort of frightening, but nothing came of it.

The other extreme can be seen in the video above.

I cannot predict what it will be like for SWIY, but 3mg daily is not a particularly heavy dose, and with some luck, SWIY might have a relatively easy time of it as SWIM did. At 6 months of daily use, SWIY should assume that he has a dependance and will need to taper. Do NOT go cold turkey, this is dangerous. Depending on his or her level of knowledge on this topic, SWIY's physician may or may not be in a position to give helpful advice on this, so SWIY may find it very fruitful to ask them these questions as well.

When tapering, SWIY should consider switching to diazepam. SWIM tried diazepam and it did not work for his issues thus he chose the hard route of tapering directly with alprazolam, but it is typical to use diazepam for tapering from benzos because of its very long half-life.

To get a flavor for what it's going to be like, SWIY could probably experiment with taking 1/2 of his normal dose once or twice.

SWIY should first pat themselves on the back for sticking to a fairly low dose and not causing tolerance issues by abusing the clonazepam. A very wise friend once told me that people taking benzos for anxiety should never take them for recreation, and vice versa.

SWIM actually thought that 3mg a day is a large dose, its actually 4mg a day if needed. Since SWIM somewhat abused the drug as of lately he is now taking just 2 mg a day, sometimes not taking any at all for a day and thinks he feels some withdrawal feelings (more like just feeling very, very uncomfortable). Thank you so much though for your response. Anxiety is a bitch, especially social anxiety (which I have) but SWIM doesn't want to end up dealing with horrid withdrawal from a legal drug like the man in this video. SWIM also drinks pretty much daily, like you said, that might make the withdrawal less intense. SWIM also needs to stop drinking though too. SWIM quit drinking alcohol cold turkey after drinking a pint of vodka a night for about 3 months and thinks there was no withdrawal because of the clonazepam. Now that SWIM wants to get off the clonazepam SWIM is kinda worried that there might be alcohol withdrawal since SWIM wants to taper off clonazepam. Either way, SWIM hope's its not as bad as the man in the video. That seemed like literal HELL. I thank you again for you responding to SWIM's questions and have a good night.

[tayo]

SWIM went through 30 clonazepam and 15 lorazepam in 6 days, supply gone..... REALLY pissed off couldnt calm down, just wanted to kill everything angry agitated irritable, couldnt sleep, it sucks, but it only lasted a few days, and the worst of it was a day after stopped using, not as bad as opiate withdrawals.

[Nagognog2]

It has to be withdrawn slowly and carefully. And not by a doctor who once read an article in the New England Journal of Medicine. One needs a specialist to handle this. Cold-Turkey can easily kill you. And a poor doctor can make death look like a viable option.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Somewhere in the Middle Ages, Swim was taking up to 80mg of diazepam a day for a few months.
One day, she ran out. No tapering. No doctor.

Of course it was pure hell (understatement), but...
Swim would like to know, actually how big is the risk of dying from benzo WD? What's the data on that? How likely is 'easily'?

Note that this is a question about Swim asking what she risked in the PAST.
Everybody should carefully listen to what has been said above (and in other threads) and take no risks at all. Swim did not have this information at the time. Which doesn't excuse her of course, some people choose to be dumb.

[Nagognog2]

UTFSE here for more information on this. As well as Google. You will find plenty of references to what has been called the worst withdrawl known.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Mmmm, Swim does know where the search button is located, thanks.
She was after an actual death occurence percentage.
No help from Pubmed either.

[upperdecker]

Thankyou all for your information/experiences. Hopefully when SWIM tapers off (whenever that is), it won't be like the dude in the video.

[tayo]

well when used alone without any other drugs, there have been no reported deaths of overdose leading to death, and is uncommon to experience death from just benzo withdrawal but if withdrawaling from other depressants like alcohol(which can kill you itself) or opiates used in conjunction and also withdrawing from, SWIM finds logical complications that could lead to death,
or an only benzo death resulting from withdrawal however SWIM imagines could happen in the event that someone with already too much adrenaline and agitation smokes some meth or uses uppers.

[radiometer]

Here is some relavant information from Dr. Ashton's site, which I linked to above:

WHAT IS THE BENZODIAZEPINE WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME?


The Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome is believed to be caused by a dampening of the action of GABA as neuroadaptivity causes GABA to become dependent on stimulation from the benzodiazepine to initiate its primary action. In other words, when you have become dependent upon a benzodiazepine, your GABA is unable to perform its natural action without the presence of the benzodiazepine. This results in a wide variety of over-activity in different areas of your brain, causing a vast and diffuse array of symptoms. These symptoms are believed to be various manifestations of neurological over-excitation as the cells in your brain become especially sensitive to the action of excitatory neurotransmitters. The most extreme manifestation of this over-excitation is a seizure event.

The Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome is noted both for its relative severity and, in some cases, its lengthy duration, as compared to withdrawal from other classes of drugs.

Withdrawal either occurs through the development of tolerance without an attendant increase in dose, or through a decrease in dosage below your "tolerance point". Your tolerance point is the dose point below which the functioning of your receptors becomes impaired due to a deficiency in stimulation from the drug. Your tolerance point may be lower than your actual dosage, such that you can sometimes cut your dose by some amount without experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

Generally, a drug's withdrawal syndrome is the mirror of its primary effects. Thus, for benzodiazepines, you can expect sleeplessness (the mirror of its hypnotic effect), anxiety (the mirror of its anxiolytic effect), muscle tension/pain (the mirror of its muscle relaxant effect), and seizures in rare cases (the mirror of its anti-seizure effect). The only exception is that the Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome does not "mirror" the amnesic effect. On the contrary the Withdrawal Syndrome often results in increased impairment of memory and cognitive functioning. However, in all cases, after the withdrawal is complete and in total remission, cognitive functioning will gradually return to the level that it was at before you began using the drug.

For a more complete list of symptoms, see below.



WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF BENZODIAZEPINE WITHDRAWAL?

The following is a list of symptoms. As they have been reported by enough individuals they are statistically likely to be legitimate withdrawal symptoms. Keep in mind that there are a wide variety of other symptoms that have been reported that may be legitimate withdrawal symptoms as well, but have not been reported by enough individuals to be statistically significant. The determination of statistical significance is not based on hard data, but on the observations of this author in reading through thousands of posts from people in withdrawal, as well as several books and articles on the subject.

This list is broken down into psychological and physical symptoms. The double asterisk (**) indicates symptoms that occur to some degree or another, at one time or another, in virtually every person experiencing benzodiazepine withdrawal. Single asterisk (*) are symptoms that are common, and occur in most people. Others are symptoms that are common enough to be verifiable withdrawal symptoms, but probably occur in a minority of cases.

Psychological symptoms: anxiety** (including panic attacks), depression**, insomnia*, derealisation/depersonalisation* (feelings of unreality/detachment from self), obsessive negative thoughts*, (particularly of a violent and/or sexual nature) rapid mood changes* (especially including outbursts of anger or rage), phobias* (especially agoraphobia and fear of insanity), dysphoria* (loss of capacity to enjoy life; possibility a combination of depression, anxiety, and derealisation/depersonalisation), impairment of cognitive functioning*, suicidal thoughts*, nightmares, hallucinations, psychosis, pill cravings. Note that it is far more common to fear psychosis than it is to actually experience it.

Physical Symptoms: abnormal sensitivity to sensory stimuli* (such as loud noise or bright light), muscle tension/pain**, joint pain*, tinnitus*, headaches*, shaking/tremors*, blurred vision* (and other complications related to the eyes), itchy skin* (including formication, ie sensations of insects crawling on skin), gastrointestinal discomfort*, electric shock sensations*, paraesthesiae* (numbness and pins and needles, especially in extremities), fatigue*, weakness in the extremities* (particularly the legs), feelings of inner vibrations* (especially in the torso), sweating, fluctuations in body temperature, difficulty in swallowing, loss of appetite, "flu like" symptoms, fasciculations (muscle twitching), metallic taste in mouth, nausea, extreme thirst (including dry mouth and increased frequency of urination), sexual dysfunction (or occasional increase in libido), heart palpitations, dizziness, vertigo, breathlessness.

Here, I have cited only the most commonly reported withdrawal symptoms. For more comprehensive lists of withdrawal symptoms see the Symptoms Index on this site.



I AM EXPERIENCING ONE OR MORE OF THE SYMPTOMS LISTED ABOVE, BUT I HAVE NOT BEGUN TAPERING MY BENZODIAZEPINE. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE SYMPTOMS ARE NOT RELATED TO BENZODIAZEPINE USE, OR COULD I ALREADY HAVE STARTED WITHDRAWAL WITHOUT EVEN TAPERING?

You are probably experiencing tolerance withdrawal. When you reach tolerance, your brain needs more of the drug to stimulate the activity of GABA, and you begin to experience withdrawal symptoms. Some people find that no matter how much they increase their dose, they are unable to obtain complete relief. This may be caused by a fast, upward tolerance spiral, or by toxicity (see above). Complete withdrawal is necessary where this occurs.

Some people mistakenly form a belief that the drug has stopped working, and no longer alleviates their anxiety disorder when in fact they are experiencing anxiety brought on by tolerance withdrawal. Unfortunately, physicians will usually reinforce this misperception and advise you to increase your dose as a result or prescribe an additional benzodiazepine and/or antidepressants.



WHAT FACTORS DETERMINE HOW SEVERE MY WITHDRAWAL WILL BE?

It is impossible to predict how severe your particular withdrawal will be, or which of the 30 or so common symptoms you are likely to experience. Duration of use, dosage, type of benzodiazepine, age, your personal body chemistry, and your method of withdrawal may all play a part. It is unclear which, if any, of these factors relate to the duration of your withdrawal syndrome as opposed to the severity.

There is some evidence that the newer, high potency benzodiazepines, especially Xanax, Klonopin, and Ativan may be associated with more severe withdrawal syndromes. However, this evidence remains anecdotal.

Bear in mind that there is wide variation in people's withdrawal experiences. For example, one person may take a low dose of a benzodiazepine for a short period of time, and suffer a very severe withdrawal. Another individual may take a high dose of the same drug for much longer, and experience very manageable withdrawal symptoms. Furthermore, an individual Valium user may have a harder time than an individual Xanax user.



Much more information available at : http://benzo.org.uk/

[Jatelka]

Tayo: Where did SWIY get the idea that benzo withdrawal can't kill (of itself)? It most certainly can.

In fact, benzos, barbiturates and alcohol are the only drugs that can cause death through withdrawal.

[tayo]

No, SWIM meant overdose on benzos, not withdrawl, SWIM knows that withdrawal itself can kill if benzos are used alone, but just saying if withdrawing from a combination of alcohol and benzos, or other depressants would be more likely to cause death than benzo withdrawal alone. When SWIM said "uncommon" to die from withdrawal from benzos alone this was a speculation, since SWIM hasn't heard of it as a national crisis or anything. SWIM does know that each withdrawal from any of the drugs SWIJ listed can cause death alone. The previous post was unclear.

[shoobie]

Swim has got some clonazepam.5mg's, some xanax xr .5mgs. and some Xaxax .5mgs IR. Has taken some every day for bout a week now. Just wondering if anyone knows the time frame (or some idea therof) being weeks, months, years, that one has to develop physical withdrawals. Have w/d off methadone and morphine, and don't ever want to w/d off benzos. Swim heard it was a beeotch when compared to opiates. dosages have been 2 mg xanax. 1-2 mgs clonazepam. Sry, by Xanax I mean alprazolam. Have tried crushing the extended to brake time release formula. Swim doesn't think it's possible. have tried ingesting high proof alcohol, to break gel down as well as lemon and grapefruit juice, strong acids, cant think of any other way to release the mechanism. anyway, back to Swim's original question anybody know (approximate timeframes)? any info or past experiences will be appreciated.

[kareena]

Medical literature advises against continuous benzo use for more than 2-4 weeks due to their addictiveness and unbelievably harsh withdrawal for many. Several months of continuous use and you're almost definately shafted.

Fly on over to Professor Ashton's website and she'll tell you all you need to know about benzo's, benzo addiction and withdrawal.

[shoobie]

Thanks Swik! Anyway, Swim hasn't had any benzos for two days now and he says he feels just fine. He discussed the subject with some other folks and figured it would be more like three weeks or a month of continuous use to develop a w/d type situation. Thanks for the reply!

[smithdogg1]

SWIM took Ativan (lorazepam) just about every day for a month. He was taking around .05-2mg a day (usually 1 mg though). He usually would take a .05 during the day and then another .05 or 1mg at night for sleep. It got to the point where he would have to take the .05 during the day or else he felt very uneasy. SWIM decided to just stop and had about four uncomfortable days, but it is hard to tell if SWIM felt like shit because he was getting no sleep, or from WD’s. But pretty much SWIM had horrid insomnia, bad headaches during the day, upset stomach, and a feeling of un-realness that is hard to explain. But the worst of it was over in four days for SWIM.

SWIM still uses Ativan, but is trying hard not to abuse it so this does not happen again, he only takes it at night for sleep and takes .05-1mg, no more dosing during the day. And he does not do it for more than 3 days in a row. I guess what SWIM is trying to say is that you can get some WD’s even if you use low doses for a mouth, they were not unbearable and SWIM still went to work during the affair. But SWIM can see how horrible they could be if you were to use high doses every day for three months or so. Just please be careful!

[shoobie]

Swim dosn't even have a month's supply left. only about two weeks, will get a few more here and there, but am really using it for back to school. Taking speech and it terrifies the shit out of me. Thanks for all the info though.

[shanegtb]

I've been taking Xanax, .5mg, for almost a month, three times daily, 6 hours each pill. I was wondering if I would have withdrawals if I stop. They're making me not feel like myself, and I'm seeing my doctor next week, but I don't want to wait because I would have to take the pills further, increasing the risk of dependency. Any information would be appreciated.

p.s. - I am also on 300mg Trileptal, so would that kick out the risk of a seuizer? (sp?)

[bloot]

SWIY should never stop taking a prescribed medicine abruptly unless serious side effects occur.. If any withdrawals were to occur they should be minor but still let SWIYself taper off of them..Around 4mg daily is when addiction occurs.

[rocksmokinmachine]

I second that do not stop taking benzodiazepines abruptly. It will result is terrible withdrawals. I would post a slow withdrawal schedule whereby the dose is gradually reduced over time, but it contains a forum in the link so i cannot post it. Just do a search for "Ashton Manual" and you should be able to find a tapering shedule.

SWIM once stopped benzodiazepines cold turkey using a combination of carbamazepine (to stop any potential seizures) 100mg in the day time, and 200mg controlled release at night, along with 15mg of zopiclone for sleep. SWIM still experienced terrible withdrawals...not advisable.

"Around 4mg daily is when addiction occurs"

Not true, one can become dependant on benzodiazepines no matter what the dosage, after just 2 weeks.

[bloot]

I second that do not stop taking benzodiazepines abruptly. It will result is terrible withdrawals. I would post a slow withdrawal schedule whereby the dose is gradually reduced over time, but it contains a forum in the link so i cannot post it. Just do a search for "Ashton Manual" and you should be able to find a tapering shedule.

SWIM once stopped benzodiazepines cold turkey using a combination of carbamazepine (to stop any potential seizures) 100mg in the day time, and 200mg controlled release at night, along with 15mg of zopiclone for sleep. SWIM still experienced terrible withdrawals...not advisable.

"Around 4mg daily is when addiction occurs"

Not true, one can become dependant on benzodiazepines no matter what the dosage, after just 2 weeks.
One can become dependent with anything but for an average person there are certain dosages where physical addiction would occur more often.

[Steva]

Swim has been taking a similar dose 1mg daily for 20 years.
When swim stops for a few days due to shortages the withdrawals are intense.
Swim suggests switching to Valium 10mg 3 times daily then slowly reducing over a 6 week period. Another vote for Ashton manual via Google.

[rocksmokinmachine]

6 weeks is a little abrupt. Most patients need to be reduced over a 6 month to a year period. Patients on higher doses can usually tolerate bigger reductions than those on smaller doses.

[Steva]

6 weeks is a little abrupt
Yes it is but if you have only been taking 1.5mg a day rather than the max4mg per day
It could be a bit more manageable with valium. The Ashton method
assumes 4mg a day so you need to get out your calculator and fine tune the numbers.
It's tough. Swim has done it many times but Valium seems easier to withdraw from than xanax. I will be practicing soon and update my findings.

[sweetsugar]

Hey, could swiys enlighten swim of the onset of a benzo w/d - physical effects. How long the w/d's last and how long one would have to be taking them to become addicted?

Many thanks.

[truth]

SWIM has been taking xanax for 3 weeks... SWIM has done numerous drugs since he has been 12 years old. SWIM has never felt addicted to substances at all. Alazopram on the other hand SWIM ran out and had none last night. SWIMs left leg was numb for 5 hours and had 2-3 panic attacks in the duration of the time. Xanax helps a great deal with SWIMs panic disorder, more then any drug(s) out there. SWIM only smokes cannabis now and rarely does any drugs. SWIM in the past used to do a lot of ecstasy. oxy contin, and too many to name like all these other SWIMers. SWIM does not feel addicted yet, but has urges sometimes like he wants them. SWIM feels though once he needs to get off them. if ever, it will be the hardest thing in SWIMs life. Not only because they help SWIM get over his panic attacks, but because it makes SWIM normal like others around him.

and here SWIY goes for some real facts also...

Benzo Withdrawl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome)

Withdrawal symptoms can occur when benzodiazepine dosage is reduced. Abrupt or over-rapid dosage reduction can produce severe withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal symptoms can even occur during a very gradual and slow dosage reduction but are rarely serious. The withdrawal symptoms may include:

Insomnia ,Rebound REM (or dreaming) sleep,Hypnagogia,Nightmares,Anxiety, possible panic attacks,Tachycardia,Hypertension,Depression, possible suicidal ideation,Tremor,Perspiration,Loss of appetite,Dysphoria,Depersonalization,Derealisation (Feelings of unreality),Tinnitus,Gastrointestinal problems (Stomach and abdomen),muscular spasms or cramps, fasciculations


An abrupt or over-rapid discontinuation of benzodiazepines may result in a more serious and very unpleasant withdrawal syndrome that may additionally result in:

Convulsions, which may result in death,Catatonia, which may result in death,Delusions,Homicidal ideation,Violence,Psychosis,Mania ,Effects similar to delirium tremens

Wiki Benzos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine)

[sweetsugar]

Thanks for the reply. Swim is curious considering at the mo, Diazepam and Temazepam are so readily available - and someone like swim would sometimes take advantage of this situation and have a blow out.

Swim doesnt recommend this as swim has a high tolerence to benzo's, these drugs are percribed for certain purposes and its illegal to pass them on or to sell. Avoid alcohol while takeing these meds!!

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Benzo withdrawal is something one should do their best to avoid.Swim likes benzodiazepines but has always been careful with them.Swim has already felt the bite from opiates so he doesn't need to add another struggle to the list.Swim will only use benzodiazepines twice weekly if that.

[sweetsugar]

[quote=Orchid_Suspiria;391301]Swim has already felt the bite from opiates so he doesn't need to add another struggle to the list.quote]

This is actually the reason why swim created this thread! :cool:

[Graduisic]

swim has come to understand that it's partially about how long swiy has used benzos, but it also about how much. swim has taken .5 mg alprazolam frequently for years, and he thinks that a lot of the side effects at that level are psychological. like swim says about xanax... once the effects wear off, the after-effect makes one think "damn, i need another xanax!". the anxiety generated often makes swim crave them, but the physical side effects weren't too bad. when swim upped the dose and was taking, like 4-5mg of alprazolam a day, then the side effects are terrible. alprazolam seems to have a particularly distinguished career for addiction over most benzos. it's hard for swim to resist them if he can get them, but when he has been without them for about two weeks he is okay. but, he has never severely abused benzos. they are some of the worst drugs to quit, but one would have to have been taking them regularly for more than a month to feel addiction. psychological addiction can occur after the first pill.

[drab4]

Yes as said above, Swim agrees that dose used is very important with regards potential withdrawals

Swim has used benzos daily over long periods (several months) and experienced little or no withdrawal on cessation. This is because Swim was careful never to use more than a low dose

However, when a person starts upping the dose, withdrawals can potentially become nasty, as I'm sure you have heard. In the one occasion where he found himself using high doses of benzos every day then Swim tapered himself off by switching to valium (pretty long half-life) and decreasing the dose slowly and gradually over a period of some weeks

As for how long withdrawals last, Swim cannot be of any help as he has always followed the above protocols and so avoided bad withdrawals. Swim wonders whether withdrawals might be similar to those experienced from alcohol though. In which case the first week is a living hell and potentially dangerous, and the next couple of weeks are not so bad, merely involving feeling like you are unwell with the flu or something like that. This is purely guesswork based on stuff read about the similarities between alcohol and benzo addiction and Swim's own experiences with alcohol withdrawal

[Matches]

When you're tapering, drink a shit ton of water with the lowered dosage. Getting the dissolving process started before benzos reach your microvilli is the right game to be playing.

When I deliberately rebound, so as to make a much-more-needed dose that much more effective, I usually swallow them (triplicate benzos) dry.

I've heard rumors about how grapefruit juice uses a similar liver pathway that can intensify the effects of certain downers, but I don't know how much truth there is to this.

[sweetsugar]

nice 1 for the info guys :)

Swim has been taking Diazepam and Temazepam in pretty high doses, she hasnt been counting exactly how many, for about a week now ~ they are now apparently all gone.

[JaWill88]

swim is pretty sure he is in a tight situation. swim has been using benzodiazepines on a near daily basis for about 6 months (almost all clonazepam with some ativan and some alprazolam). for the last three months swim has been prescribed to 18mg of clonazepam a day (6mg three times a day) so swim has been recieving 270ct 2mg clonazepam pills a month. on top of this it barely does anything for his anxiety. he usually takes about 9mg twice a day instead and even that doesn't do much. swim has takes up to 48 2mg tablets at once and didn't even feel drowsey/sleepy/sedated or anything. thats basically 100mg. swim highly suggests NO ONE DO THIS. swim just had to see if he could still get that real anxiety relief he first got when he would take like 3 .5mg pills and feel sedated, uncordinated, and eventually fall asleep. NOPE. swim also is on suboxone (buprenorphine hcl). he used to be on the maximum dose of 32mg a day and has tapered down to 2mg a day. but swim has gone without his meds for a few days a couple times and both time had siezure. so just to reinforce what has already been said, benzodiazepines are not to be fucked around with too much and the withdrawal is insanity. especially when swim is withdrawing from 18mg clonazepam a day AND and opioid. it is truly aweful. so swiys should be careful. swims doctor knows that dose is high and swim wants off and swims doc wrote a script for 300mg phenobarbital a day. swim took those 3 pills and swim must admit he was TRASHED. swim assumes it's because he's never had a barbituate in his body before, correct? anyways this stuff should be great in aiding getting of both drugs. has anyone else got of high dose benzos using barbituates? esp. phenob.?

[sirdrugalot]

swim is pretty sure he is in a tight situation. swim has been using benzodiazepines on a near daily basis for about 6 months (almost all clonazepam with some ativan and some alprazolam). for the last three months swim has been prescribed to 18mg of clonazepam a day (6mg three times a day) so swim has been recieving 270ct 2mg clonazepam pills a month. on top of this it barely does anything for his anxiety. he usually takes about 9mg twice a day instead and even that doesn't do much. swim has takes up to 48 2mg tablets at once and didn't even feel drowsey/sleepy/sedated or anything. thats basically 100mg. swim highly suggests NO ONE DO THIS. swim just had to see if he could still get that real anxiety relief he first got when he would take like 3 .5mg pills and feel sedated, uncordinated, and eventually fall asleep. NOPE. swim also is on suboxone (buprenorphine hcl). he used to be on the maximum dose of 32mg a day and has tapered down to 2mg a day. but swim has gone without his meds for a few days a couple times and both time had siezure. so just to reinforce what has already been said, benzodiazepines are not to be fucked around with too much and the withdrawal is insanity. especially when swim is withdrawing from 18mg clonazepam a day AND and opioid. it is truly aweful. so swiys should be careful. swims doctor knows that dose is high and swim wants off and swims doc wrote a script for 300mg phenobarbital a day. swim took those 3 pills and swim must admit he was TRASHED. swim assumes it's because he's never had a barbituate in his body before, correct? anyways this stuff should be great in aiding getting of both drugs. has anyone else got of high dose benzos using barbituates? esp. phenob.?

yeah swim was in a similar situation him self was taken 18-24mg clonazepam per day + codeine and various other benzos and opiates.
down to just 2.5mg of clonazepam per day now, no codeine, other benzos or other shit.
you were taking up on 100mg of clonazepam thats a fucking lot, your doctor needs a swift kick in the balls for putting you on that high a dose of clonazepam. he should of switched you to another benzo if it was doing noting for you.
but its surprising how much of a tolerance you build when taking the same type of benzo all the time, swim found him self doing the same sort of thing eating hand full pills and they were doing not a thing to him. what made swim want to quit was one day swim started necking clonazepam, bromazepam, and Valium swim had a black out and woke up in hospital with sucker pads all over his chest and guts wired up to a machine and a drip in his arm. swim had to have his liver flushed he had 25 30/500 codeine/paracetamol must of just eat them or els not let the cwe cool down before filtering swim cant remember, also swallowed a shit load of soma dont know how much but swim stopped breathing. just lucky swims brother came home from work and found him, or swim would not be around today.
swim thinks its best to get off any kind of opiates first then tackle your benzo problem but im no doctor perhaps he knows best. but swim did not even go see his doc till he was off all opiates and other benzos and tapered him self down to 3mg of clonazepam per day.
good luck with your withdrawals i hope it works out for you just keep positive and think about getting back to a normal life without necking shit load of pills every day, you can do it.

[tryptamaster]

if swim uses clonazepam at 1-3mg about 3 days out of the week for 2 months and quits is he likely to go through withdrawl? swim knows this is a hard question to answer but any attempts are appreciated.

[sirdrugalot]

if swim uses clonazepam at 1-3mg about 3 days out of the week for 2 months and quits is he likely to go through withdrawl? swim knows this is a hard question to answer but any attempts are appreciated.

swim would say you would probably go through withdrawals but it depends on the person and why your taken it.
if your taken it some kind of anxiety disorder swim would say the chances of feeling withdrawals would be increased.
but swim would not chance it best to take it for a binge of a few days then give it a few weeks break.
if your gonna take for recreational effects its not worth taking the same benzo over long periods of time because you will soon find you build a massive tolerance to it and feel little or no effects even at very high doses. its best to switch your benzos around so as not to build a tolerance to them.
but be very careful addiction can happen very easily and giving them up can be very hard and very prolonged.

[Myzel]

if swim uses clonazepam at 1-3mg about 3 days out of the week for 2 months and quits is he likely to go through withdrawl? swim knows this is a hard question to answer but any attempts are appreciated.


Swim does not believe you will have any withdrawal symptoms at that dose and as often as you use it.. Swim uses about the same maybe a little more and feels no withdrawal when swim stops... Thats just my opinion ..But yes everybody is different. Just don't want anyone to have unnecessary placebo withdrawal.

[xxxSuSHixxx]

SwiPetFish has been on klonopin for about 1 yr, abusing it as its available, he is known to run out of 150 1mg script in 3-4 days, He assumes the only reason he isnt dead is because of the huge time gaps between taking the kpin....but lateley has been noticing twitching, mild seizures, like the shaking of his hands, uncontrollably, seriously thinking about tapering off for obvious reasons.... oh and the most FUCKED up part about all of Who we arnt being addicted/reliant on such a deadly drug..... Did anyone's perscriber warn them about any of these symtoms? survey says no.... sure dident fore SwiPF......He learned the hard way, getting addicted, and now getting unadicted.... OH and marijuana seems to help VERY MUCH with SwiPF not needing kpins, if SwiPF just stays blazed all day it makes it more bareable... SwiPF does not sudjest this as a way to combat withdrawls, benzos are too hardcore .. they simpley are....

[sweetsugar]

SWIM was takeing between 20-50mg Diazepam one day, the next two days nothing, then she'd have a large dose of Temazepam, 80-120mg, then nothing again for a couple of days and back to takeing Diazepam. This SWIM would do for about 3-4 weeks and leave the benzo's alone for 1 or 2 months - no withdrawal symptoms, just an increasing tolerence. But Diazepam became so readily available she was takeing them every day for about 3 months, with a high tolerence SWIM was takeing more and more to get the desired effects. Abusing them had totally took the fun away from takeing benzo's. SWIM had to taper and stopped. Even with tapering she felt some WDs, although only minor - NOT nice at all! The worst WD symptom for SWIM was very high anxiety. SWIM would rather ride an opiate WD as opposed to withdrawing from benzo's. SWIM says its a VERY silly idea to withdraw coldturkey from benzos without tapering, just as it is abusing these or any drug:s

[xxxSuSHixxx]

SwiPF agrees 100%, they should not prescribe 90% of benzos..... its a phucking deathwish for whoever accidentley withdrawls from it..... WTF .....

[sirdrugalot]

SwiPetFish has been on klonopin for about 1 yr, abusing it as its available, he is known to run out of 150 1mg script in 3-4 days, He assumes the only reason he isnt dead is because of the huge time gaps between taking the kpin....but lateley has been noticing twitching, mild seizures, like the shaking of his hands, uncontrollably, seriously thinking about tapering off for obvious reasons.... oh and the most FUCKED up part about all of Who we arnt being addicted/reliant on such a deadly drug..... Did anyone's perscriber warn them about any of these symtoms? survey says no.... sure dident fore SwiPF......He learned the hard way, getting addicted, and now getting unadicted.... OH and marijuana seems to help VERY MUCH with SwiPF not needing kpins, if SwiPF just stays blazed all day it makes it more bareable... SwiPF does not sudjest this as a way to combat withdrawls, benzos are too hardcore .. they simpley are....
swim finds if he smokes dope when he is tapering that it induces racing heart beat, anxiety attacks, and paranoia. but saying that swim cant smoke dope unless he has taken some long acting benzos like diazepam, clonazepam. perhaps if you you have access to a nice 100% indica which gives a nice sedating stoned rather than a uplifting sativa high. a better option than smoking dope would be having a few drinks when tapering not some thing like brandy but as it like other spirits can make your heart race also. a few beers works good but its best if you can taper with out taking any other drugs or alcohol as it will give you more strength and will power and it also avoids the chance swapping one addiction for another.

[xxxSuSHixxx]

To be more clear about the Herb in question, it is the... "sit on couch and dont move" kind of herb. and SwiPF plans to stay using The herb long after the benzo hell is removed.

[Dickon]

I usually lie...so take what is useful from the following tall story...

I've not read through all the posts. There are a lot of them, so apologies if I add nothing new. I will first off repeat what the medical profession say: DO NOT QUIT BENZOS QUICKLY. There is one particularly scary problem with doing that I've seen mentioned on a prevelant benzo-help site, together with a plausable bio-mechanical explanation therefore, and that is this : if you quit quickly from a large dose you can cause irreperable (or seriously long-term) damage that CANNOT be reversed simply by resuming the benzos at the old or even a higher dose. The recommended way is to first switch to a long acting benzo, usually valium (remember Xanax is really dangerously addicting, I'm speaking both from personal experience, and from (although I have no sources) medical opinion. The reason being that it is both strong, and short acting), and then taper off very carefully.

Right having covered my bases with what we've been told to do, let me give you my own experience of benzo withdrawals. I once had back in the mid-late 90s what I suppose is a fairly high habit of 1st generation benzos (by pill henceforth I mean 10mg valium 25 mg Librium(chlordiazepoxide), 20mg Temazepam, and on rare occasions 50mg Oxazepams). I picked up the habit in Berlin when I was already on 150mg methadone a day, and because of the health-insurance system, doctor shopping was particularly easy. All I'd do was go round 3 or 4 doctors a day and get scripts for legitimate but large doses. I'd come back usually about 12 days later (assuming a 14 day script) so as not to arouse suspision. Usually you just got shoved on a computer, and you just had to see the receptionist. Anyway I built up my habit to about 20-40 pills a day (the maximum being 90 temazepam in 24 hours and 100 valium). Anyway I was at this for at least a year, I think quite a lot longer. I decided to quit, I didn't feel particularly addicted to them, and stopped cold-turkey. I didn't really notice much until one night at my Dad's I had a fit in front of him. I did know this was a possible side effect, so I thought I'd resume, but did so at a much more modest 3-5 pills a day. I'm not sure how long I continued on this dose regime, but fairly soon after I went to rehab, and being very blazee and saying Benzos were not a problem I got given a 10 day detox from 3 librium (i.e. 75 mg), essentially a linear taper. I also detoxed from 200mg methadone, dropping to 100mg day 2, and 0 thereafter. The only medical assist was clonidine and the benzo taper. I was not a pretty picture for the first month or so, but I survived it, and emerged better than new at the end of it, and stayed clean for 23 months or so. I was incredibly nervy and anxious at first, but I was so high at being clean that I almost didn't notice it at the time.

My next experince, again with first generation benzos, had me using for 6 months (I can't remember the doses, but fairly small ones. maybe 5-10 pills a day), and I went to some benzo-help-group. I don't mean to denigrate anyone, but what a sad looking lot of people. The healthcare woman who ran the thing advised me on pain of death (almost) not to stop cold turkey. Dickon is not a good advice taker, when the source of advice seems dubious, so I quit cold turkey. I experienced a week or two of unpleasant anxiety, but then regained my equalibrium, and thought what a clever Toad I'd been to ignore this stupid woman's advice: I've got this problem with knowing best some days...

On a few more years, and I've got addicted two or three or maybe more times for fairly short periods using the newer benzos, inter alia, Xanax, Klonopin, Midazolam, and of course my old fave Temazepam now in 30mg form. The frightening thing was how quickly I got hooked and how nasty the w.d.s were. I'm talking from weeks, maybe months of use. I'm not sure if this is a function of my having got addicted before, or of the fact that these newer things are nastier. I'm inclined to think they are. Let me stress I've only ever used benzos regularly with opiates, but don't know how opiate use affects benzo addiction and w.d. The w.d.s were very intense, but of shorter duration as would be expected.

God willing I got out unscathed. Please do not do as I did, except under a doctors advice. All I am giving is one man's experience, and maybe a slight slight hint that you may get away with a quicker taper than is recommended. But seek independent professional advice, although feel free to quote anything here as a case study with a sample size of 1.

Best of luck to all quitting nast drugs (I'm quitting methadone at the moment, and am thankfully long off the benzos!)

Dr D.

[lorzapmail]

Mark V knowns the hell of Lorzeapam withdrawal. Cold turkey on that doseage may cause seizures, for sure panic attacks and dangerously high blood pressure. In Swims case doctor intervention was a must. Congrats on the nerve to see a Doctor and admit your problem. Note: "never met a addicit that thought he/she would get addicited."