View Full Version : Drug info - ever lick or smoke a toad (Bufotenine)?
I was wondering does anybody have a sonoran desert toad that you use for hallucinogenic purposes if so were did you getr it and how do you harvest it?
wednesday
02-12-2004, 02:03
i had a link somewhere but i can't find it
paul
Paul, please post the info instead of linking.
OneDiaDem
02-12-2004, 02:50
I wish you luck. I have been trying to find one of these for a few years now. It is very hard to find people who actually sell them. A couple friends have them, and sort of lucked into them
They must be milked of their venom, and the venom must then be dried in order to smoke it.</font>
OneDiaDem
02-12-2004, 07:41
Get to gold status, I emailed my friend and she gave me the link to a supplier, and its now posted in the sources forum. He only has them once in awhile, last time I checked and emailed, he was out.</font>
searcher
05-01-2006, 19:06
Toad Licking
You've probably heard about 'toad licking'. Go out into the woods, find a stream, find a toad, lick it, and ta-da! La-La land. Well, it's not EXACTLY like that... although, finding mushrooms is ALMOST like that, except you don't go into the woods, you go into a pasture, and instead of finding a stream, you find a pile of cow flop... but that's another subject. But anyway, back to the toad thing.
First of all, if you do happen to find the right toad, it wouldn't be a good idea to lick it. The stuff that 'gets you off' is actually venom. The frog secretes the stuff when it gets agitated, such as when a predator is about to gobble it down. As soon as the wolf or gila monster or whatever puts the thing in it's mouth, it spits it out, because the venom tastes like ca-ca. But a human, however... a human dedicated to catching a buzz will go ahead and lick the toad, because he's got a new-fangled cerebral cortex that suppresses his natural instincts for long term survival in favor of his need for instant gratification. So before you go stuffing toads in your mouth, here's a few things you should know.
The toad's venom is concentrated on the surface of it's skin, and that's why licking is dangerous. Smoking it is a different story, however. The toxic ingredient in toad venom is called bufotenine, which is burned off while smoking. After the toxic stuff is gone, what's left is the hallucinogen 5-MeO-DMT. THIS is what sends you to never-never land. The only toad known to contain 5-MeO-DMT in it's venom is Bufo Alvaris, also called the Colorado River Toad. It is found in the Southwestern portions of the U.S., usually along the Colorado River in Southern Arizona, California, and Northern New Mexico. 5-MeO-DMT is classified as an unscheduled substance, which means that it is legal to posess... but B. Alvarus venom also contains bufotenine, which is scheduled, so you are hereby warned of all the cop crap.
B. Alvarus is a very large, squat toad with smooth, leathery, greenish-grey skin with tannish underparts. It has several round warts on the body, and four large parotid glands found where the hind-leg meets the body and also above the ear membranes. They can grow up to 9 inches long, but they usually range between 4 and 9 inches. If you ever do actually have one of these greeblies in your hands, be very careful, because as I stated earlier, it secretes venom when agitated, so wear gloves or something and don't rub your eyes or any other orafice on your body after handling it.
In order to get a smokeable sample, put the toad on a piece of glass (a pyrex baking dish works well) and rub the parotid glands behind it's eyes. This will irritate the toad, and it will secrete a milky fluid. Once there is a goodly amount of it, let it evaporate to a crystal and then scrape it with a razor blade. Put it in a glass pipe, and then SHMOKE IT!
These are the commonly reported (generic) effects
Coming on INSTANLY, you will feel a buzzing head-rush and notice a profound change in light and color perceptions. Acute closed-eye visual hallucinations are commonly reported. Effects last for 5 to 15 minutes, falling off rapidly. WARNING: Venom smokers may experience dizziness and/or heart palpitations. If this occurs, breathe slowly and deeply until the effect fades.
Here is a first hand account by Yours Truly
A friend of mine mailed me a sample of this stuff, and included was a note that read 'have a nice time'. I had no idea what this 5-MeO-DMT stuff was, and expected some kind of a mellow buzz akin to marijuana. So, confidently, I loaded the stuff into a pipe, sat back in my lounge chair, and prepared to chill out. Two seconds after I had inhaled my first (and only) hit, the room exploded. When I say that, I mean... it EXPLODED. Everything came apart like a puzzle, but the pieces were still next to each other, like it had only come apart at the seams but hadn't scattered to the four winds. It was an extreme, instant rush; VERY INTENSE. I gripped the arms of the chair I was sitting in like I was on a roller-coaster, and looked over at my lifelong buddy Clintmonstah, and his face flew into 5 different parts. Actually, it was his face, reproduced 5 times, hovering around the central image of his REAL face. I can remember saying something like "oh shit, this is heavy", and then Clint left the room, knowing that something SERIOUS was going on. What followed after that is very hard to recall, because it seemed like a VERY long time passed... a lot longer than the 5 minutes that actually passed in reality between the time when Clint left the room and when he came back. When Clint came back in the room, I was starting to chill out a little, but during those 5 minutes, I was somewhere else. Where, I do not know. Not only was I someWHERE else, I was someWHEN else too. I could have lived an entire lifetime in those 5 minutes, because it seemed like an eternity had passed. Time lost all meaning. EVERYTHING lost all meaning. I was in limbo for those 5 minutes. But I finally came back... and had a frame of reference again! I exhaled in relief. After that, things calmed down, until the effects were completely gone. The entire episode lasted for about 30 minutes from the time I inhaled to the time I was totally back in reality. And what a journey it was...
If you've ever done acid or mushrooms, then imagine the heaviest trip you've ever had magnified about 100 times. That is what it's like when you inhale about 5 milligrams (the recommended dose) of 5-MeO-DMT. And it's instant, not like the slow, gradual coming on when you take an acid hit or eat a shroom. So if you ever have a chance to smoke some 5-MeO-DMT, now you know what you're in for, unlike poor naive me who was expecting a mellow buzz in my comfortable lounge chair in my air-conditioned apartment. But, it's definitely worth the trip, even if you take it only once. I haven't taken it since, and it has been 2 years...
But you know, you can order the stuff legaly from a company called 'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I have found the brochure which was floating around my apartment somewhere, and here's the address and phone number like I said, so you can check it out for yourself. O-tay, butt-wheat?
Do NOT post sources here. Read the Rules. Thanks.
nanobrain
08-01-2006, 23:16
the above is a verbatim copy-paste from a Geocities page. i believe it is NOT searcher's writing.
now, anecdotal evidence suggests that getting a good hit of 2BR-ICK (of course, only the pure rock form will do) will produce the same effect and will help you avoid frenchkissing gaggles of hapless toads (lest they turn into a princes?).
Nagognog2
09-01-2006, 07:06
But the best is, of course, the Cane-Toad. Right nano?
nanobrain
12-01-2006, 06:05
whapadang straight. why else d'ya recken we call'em Cane-Toads?
raven3davis
03-05-2006, 03:49
SWIM remembers reading in the anarchist cookbook that you could kill a toad and smoke its dead body! The instructions to do so were right after the instructions on how to make lsd from morning glory seeds. ROFL...........peace SWIM is about to go smoke a banana peel or possible peanut shells (SWIM must refer to his trusty anarchist cook book to find which one will fuck him up more).
Then again SWIM could always just try to make some sort of explosive and get high off the fumes!
Where does the toad licking myth come from anyways? Homer licked a toad on one episode so many of SWIMs friends think you can get high from licking a toad. lol people are goofy including swim...peace
bufo alavarus (sp?) toads contain 5 meo dmt.
you will not be able to get high off the 5 meo dmt though unless you milk the toad for its venom. Licking will get you nowhere.
i think that is where the whole toad licking thing comes from.
Nagognog2
03-05-2006, 07:25
From a real incident:
Hot Frogs on the Loose
By the light of the Tennessee moon
From the bilious bubbles of a black lagoon
They make a hound dog howl a SWAT team swoon
Hot frogs on the loose
They've multiplied since '53
Slurping nuclear debris
Amphibious fabulous fancy free
Hot frogs on the loose
CHORUS:
Hippity hoppity here they come
Radioactive lookin' for fun
If you kiss 'em look out for the tongue
Hot frogs on the loose
They got little skinny legs and big bug eyes
Fraternizing's not advised
They like you like they like flies
Hot frogs on the loose
They got a chicken nugget body and a whopper leap
In your bedroom while you sleep
They'll make your Geiger counter beep
Hot frogs on the loose
CHORUS
You can put the pedal to the metal till the rubber squeals
Squish 'em with your tires you got hot wheels
How you know how it feels to be a
Hot frog on the loose
Please do not keep them as pets
Sauteing them may bring regrets
Make a citizen's arrest of a
Hot frog on the loose
Frogs for peace frogs for defense
Don't be nervous don't be tense
We've got a sure-fire three-foot fence
To keep the hot frogs from gettin loose
CHORUS
- Fred Small
CrookedEye
03-05-2006, 15:44
bufo alavarus (sp?) Bufo Alvarius is the correct spelling...
If you ever think about licking or smoking a toad DO NOT USE CANE TOADS! These toads won't get you high but will get you sick. It is rare but these toads if licked can be deadly.
Just uploaded this to the file archive, thought it may be applicable to this thread.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1014&catid=53
Abstract
Anthropologists have long speculated that ancient peoples of Mesoamerica used a toad, Bufo marinas, as a ritual intoxicant. This hypothesis rests on many iconographic and mythological representations of toads and on a number of speculative ethnographic reports. The authors reject B. marinus as a candidate for such use because of the toxicity of its venom. A more likely candidate is the Sonoran desert toad, Bufo alvarius, which secretes large amounts of the potent known hallucinogen, 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5MeO-DMT). The authors demonstrate that the venom of B. ulvarius, although known to be toxic when consumed orally, may be safely smoked and is powerfully psychoactive by that route of administration. These experiments are the first documentation of an hallucinogenic agent from the animal kingdom, and they provide clear evidence of a psychoactive toad that could have been employed by Precolumbian peoples of the New World.
5 MEO DMT is like having a steak dinner without having a steak dinner.
It doesn't do anything.
You are kidding me right? Do you even know what you are talking about?
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt_effects.shtml
jesusfreak666er
21-08-2006, 02:56
Trebor swim doesnt get what swiy means, explain, does swiy mean because it isnt active orally unless in combination with an maoi, cuz we are discussing smoking, swim is just guessing not sure wat u mean.
All members of the genus Bufo have nasty oral toxin (peptides and cardiac glycosides) which are active orally but not when smoked. However, only alvarus has 5meoDMT. Some smoke Bufo marinus venom, but it is not 5meoDMT. Licking any toad, including bufo alvarus, is a good way to die a nasty death. Those from toad infected regions of Australia can attest to how toxic these critters are.
If you wanna get high in the animal kingdom, snakes and scorpion venom is the way to go.
Snapper
I'm kinda lost now:
Does the milking a toad actually work or is it a myth?
If so, would it be morally ok to keep one as a pet hooked to a milking machine?
(I guess most people know where the banan thing came from. I read a story in "I want to get you higher" but that might have been made up too..)
Yes one could milk a toad but it scares them really bad which in could scare the hell out of you. No one could not milk it often they need a resting period or it does serious damage to the toad. Why would one want to hurt/scare a toad to get high VERY bad Karma. If one wants to experience 5-meo-dmt buy it from a research company. In the long run it is much cheaper than keeping a pet toad properly. These toads need lots of room and lots of food the up keep is very expensive. Also all the toads that can be food in pet stores are wild caught. So when one gets them they are taking a toads freedom away so one is putting a toad in jail. Would you want to be locked up and tortured by your cellmate Bubba for the rest of you life?
Swib understand trebor. 5-meo-dmt is very whitening were as nndmt is very colorful. Which is what swib thinks was meant one gets launched into the universe but with out all the beautiful colors. The steak dinner with out the steak.
leave the poor defenseless toads alone! It takes a person who knows how to take care of these speacial animals to care for them properlly, if not one is just hurting an animal.
Yes one could milk a toad but it scares them really bad which in could scare the hell out of you. No one could not milk it often they need a resting period or it does serious damage to the toad. Why would one want to hurt/scare a toad to get high VERY bad Karma. If one wants to experience 5-meo-dmt buy it from a research company. In the long run it is much cheaper than keeping a pet toad properly. These toads need lots of room and lots of food the up keep is very expensive. Also all the toads that can be food in pet stores are wild caught. So when one gets them they are taking a toads freedom away so one is putting a toad in jail. Would you want to be locked up and tortured by your cellmate Bubba for the rest of you life?
Swib understand trebor. 5-meo-dmt is very whitening were as nndmt is very colorful. Which is what swib thinks was meant one gets launched into the universe but with out all the beautiful colors. The steak dinner with out the steak.
leave the poor defenseless toads alone! It takes a person who knows how to take care of these speacial animals to care for them properlly, if not one is just hurting an animal.
SWIM has been involved in the pet industry for several years, and kept several of these toads, and while he appreciates your concern, a lot of your information is false.
To begin with, if you decide you want to keep the Colorado River Toad, do so. Not because you can get trip off the venom (although some see it is a plus), but because they are awesome animals.
Their care is no different than any other toad. Give him a deep moist substrate to dig in, clean water every day, and feed him 2-3 times a week. He'll eat crickets, which should be dusted with calcium carbonate. Larger toads will be able to eat new-borne mice on a less frequent schedule. Mice with hair should not be fed, as the hair is difficult for to break down and digest, and may lead to impaction.
Keep his enclosure in the mid 80s to low 90s during the day, and allow it to drop to the mid 60s at night. While not necessary, providing him with some sort of lighting containing the UVB wavelength will certainly improve his health.
As far as the enclosure goes, we have kept them in rubbermaids, but your standard glass aquarium will work also. If you choose to use a glass aquarium, take paper and wrap it around the first 2 or 3 inches of the entire tank, so the toad knows he can't climb through there. Left open, he will continously try to climb out through the glass, resulting in a messed up nose and jaw.
As far as milking the venom, do it no more frequently than once a month. There are more spots to milk than just the ones on the head, they have glands on the legs and on the front feet.
"Half-a-gram to a gram or more of fresh venom can be collected from a large adult specimen of B. alvarius. Half of this weight is water and evaporates upon drying. But, as must as fifteen per cent of the dry weight is the predominant alkaloid, 5-MEO-DMT. In other words, one large toad yielding one gram of fresh venom may equal as much as seventy-five milligrams of potent hallucinogen, psychoactive in man at doses of three to five milligrams." - Erowid Toad Venom Vault
The concern for wild-caught specimens is a very real issue, atleast. If you look around, there are captive bred toads available, but definately more pricey...but worth it. You shouldn't have to deal with internal parasites or bacterial infections that are common with wild-caught toads.
If SWIM thinks of anything else, I'll post it for him. These guys make awesome pets, and are fun to have around. Nothing creepier than when SWIY is tripping, and the happy, horney male toad starts singing...
And also, orally ingesting the venom is a bad idea, as it contains bufotenin, which is potentially toxic. Stick to smoking it.
In the US, captive bred toads are illegal bu Arizona law, which allows a seasonal bag limit of 10 and no sales. AZ will not prosecute small timers but will go after anyone selling large amounts of captive bred toads, which is too bad because they are not that hard to breed. This probably does not apply to other countries. The legal status in California is unclear and there are no laws in other states against them. If they are found to be used as a drug the DEA can come after you; there is one precedent setting case of a prosecution for possession and intent to sell bufotenine with someone who owned and milked the toads a while back.
They can be kept as other toads, but like it drier than most species. Letting the water dish dry out weekly, then refilling, probably is closer to their normal life cycle. If it is too moist, they are prone to skin infections long term.
These are very personable animals and make good pets. They also seem quite long lived, tame and very amenable to captivity. Probably because predators ignore them (like cane toads) and so they are not as fearful as otehr wild animals.
According to the United States Fish and WildLife Service, they are neither listed as endangered or protected.
According to the Global Amphibian Assessment Database, they are listed as a species of Least Concern.
"Red List Category Rationale: Listed as Least Concern in view of its wide distribution, tolerance of a degree of habitat modification, presumed large population, and because it is unlikely to be declining fast enough to qualify for listing in a more threatened category."
Most states require you to possess a fishing license when collecting reptiles/amphibians, and they have a limit on the number of wild-caught specimens of any one species you collect. You know, they don't want you to take the entire breeding population of an animal with you.
I don't know why a state would prohibit you from having captive-bred animals of any type, as that doesn't hurt the population. Surely you meant wild-caught? In my state (confusion), even the animals that are protected can be sold, if you have proof they are captive bred from an out of state breeder. Endangered are illegal regardless.
I also find it very interesting that you feel these need a drier environment. I've always kept them moist, and if given a larger portion of water, these guys will swim. A lot. It's necessary for them to breed, infact.
The source of a bacterial infection on one of these guys would be a dirty water source, or stale air ... the same as with any reptile. The term thrown around the reptile industry for this occurance is septicima, scale rot, skin rot, ect.
Again, I'll restate...every one of these SWIM has kept has loved a moist substrate (he uses coco coir), because they'll dig. They'll dig, and tunnel. And given enough water, they'll swim around. If these weren't such tanks when it came to moving around the enclosure, their habitat would be perfect for mushroom cultivation. Stamets did it with tree frogs.
There seems to be a lot of false information going around about these guys, as always.
Aw man, leave the toads alone!
SWIM has also used coconut fiber, but lets it mostly dry out. Water dish if cleaned and filled weekly, but allowed to dry in between. These are animals that spend much of their time buried to prevent overheating and dehydration, storing water inside them to use. Allowing for dry cycles is more in accord with their natural behavior, and keeps nasty bacteria from overgrowing a constantly damp substrate. However, if works for you works for you, and stick with it. There is more than one right way to do things.
Breeding is facilitated by allowing dry periods. Then, when they get to swim, an orgy will ensue.
California lists the fogs as species of speical interest because they are extinct in the state thanks to pesticides from the US Army in the 1940s. Arizona will go after you if you sell them if you take the time to research. Your state has no laws against it, but Arizona does and can pursue a case outside of state lines. This is probably why no captive breds are ever offered, though they are easy to breed in captivity. You are allowed a back limit of 10 with a fishing license, but need to return them by next year if alive, and it is illegal to sell them. No one recently has pushed the envelope by offering captive bred toads for sale, but chances are problems would ensue.
PM if you have any other questions - SWIM has worked with amphibians for years and B. alvarus are amongst SWIMs favorite herps.
Snapper does swis have more any information about breeding b alvarius? swib has been breeding E. tricolor, D leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. auratus, D. Pumilio, and d azureus for many years among a few others here and there, but continually breeds these frogs. So Swib has experience with breeding. Swib also has several close friends who breed many other herps. Swib and swibs friends supply many of the amphibians in the city swib is from. Swib has attempted to breed the alvarius with no success. Swib is also trying to breed some P. Bicolor with no success. Any information on that would be great. Swib has never seen or heard of alvarius captive breed for sale. Swib also has been in the herp business for many years and has very close ties with the local zoo which is were swib can take sick amphibians for care since no vet knows anything about them most of swibs frogs actually came from the head of the reptile and amphibians department at the local zoo. Also one of swibs closest friends owns the largest reptile and amphibian store in swibs area. From swibs understanding the bicolor has only been successful breed by one breeder in California. This person wrote details in reptilla magazine which swib has a subscription. This person had a large amount of these frogs and only had one pair breed. Swib has never seen any publications on breeding the alvaius. Do swis know of any? From swibs understanding they need to be injected with a hormone to be able to breed in captivity, which swib does not want to do.
Bearded where did swib post misinformation? Please point it out swib always is interested in learning more and better care for swibs pets. Swib agrees with snapped more here Swibs toads do not like it very moist they are a desert toad. Swib does not think a desert is very moist. They only like water when breeding. They do live very close to water in the wild not more than about a mile from what swib has read. Swib also read one will find them on the edge of the water not swimming alouth they almost have webed feet so not impossible. but the area around the water is dry When swib has keeped swibs cage moist It has caused a red bacteria in which swib had to spray super sulfa to get rid of it. Do you not thionk they can dig in a dry substrate? Swib agrees with some of your post they are not much different to care for than a regular toad, but do you think the average person knows how to properly take care of a toad, when the toad gets sick or bacteria do you think one could just take it to a vet?
How big is ones Rubbermaid container? Swib houses a pair in a 100 gallon tall terrium and swib thinks this is small because they love to move and hop. Swib agrees if one were to buy these toads it should be as a pet not a drug factory and the way some post here they seem more interested in a drug rather than a great pet. Swib also agrees they have great character for toads.
Also one needs more vitamins than just calcium carbonate. Swib uses Rep-Cal multivitamins along with their calcium. Swib also buys special gut load for swibs insects and feeds them a large variety of fruits and vegetables. Swib breeds 5 different roaches, crickets, and wax worms. In a good week swibs 2 toads go through about 50-100 crickets, and 5-25 large roaches. If a person were to buy this amount of insects it would be very expensive. These toads live 10+ years so multiply that amount of insects by that many years. So it is MUCH cheaper to just buy 5-meo-dmt if that is all one is interested in. Swib would hate to feed swibs animals only one kind of insect. Swib would hate to only eat one thing for the rest of swibs life. How about you? They eat so many different things in the wild. Kind of mean to only feed them dusted crickets. Swib sometimes buys pinky mice, but not often because of the high fat content which can cause vision problems.
SWIMs alvarus amplexed several times, laid some eggs in the mud in the water dish when first acquired. None since, but SWIM has not tried.
SWIM would adopt the dry out, then flood with ice water stragegy. This works for many species dependent on runoff to trigger breeding. Given that these are Colorado river toads, deluge conditions would likely work the best.
SWIM uses a glass terrarium which suits them fine. They do burrow, but the key is to have a barely damp substrate. The coconut fiber is good because it does not seem to harbor moisture for too long. which They eat insects, mainly king meal worms and crickets, with the occasional lobster or hissing roach or pinkie and only need to be fed about 1x week. SWIM thinks Bman1 spoils the toads - SWIM feeds far less and the animals maintain their weight nicely.
You are correct in that only one person has bred bicolor, but they are probably not the most difficult if you have a big rainchamber. Funny you should mention it, but SWIM has worked with bicolor for years. Worst red leg ever when they get it, but SWIM found out the right way to house (really hot driy top with water bottom). SWIMs never bred bicolor, though, but will one day.
Injecting frogs to breed is a cop-out. You can breed alvarus if you want to naturally. All amphibians have a trigger, and you just need to replicate it.
Swib does not think a desert is very moist. They only like water when breeding. They do live very close to water in the wild not more than about a mile from what swib has read.
it may be true that these toads come from a desert environment, but like all desert animals, you need to look at the microhabitat. precipitation does not occur regularly. these animals manage to find moisture somewhere. where is there moisture retained in a desert? under stones, at the base of clumps of plant matter. underneath things, generally. it'll be cooler, and more humid.
originally, baby g. sulcata tortoises were kept in a dry environment...because they come from a desert. a lot of these tortoises grew up with shell deformaties. by looking at the microhabitat, it was discovered that they spend a lot of time digging in the desert vegetation...there is a ton of humidity there.
Swib also read one will find them on the edge of the water not swimming alouth they almost have webed feet so not impossible. but the area around the water is dry
Yes, these guys will swim. try it. what area around any body of water is dry? sand, dirt, ect. absorb up water. the only frogs SWIM has ever experienced bacterial infections in are red eyes and whites, for some reason.
When swib has keeped swibs cage moist It has caused a red bacteria in which swib had to spray super sulfa to get rid of it.
its SWIM's opinion that these infections may be caused by poor husbandry skills. stagnant air + moist substrate is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria. introduce fresh air, turn the substrate often, and change it frequently. if using coir, that doesnt mean throw it out. throw the moist, dirty coir in the oven at the lowest setting for an hour, and then remove. allow to cool, and reuse. this will kill a lot of bacteria.
do you not thionk they can dig in a dry substrate?
have you ever tried to make a sand castle in dry sand?
Swib agrees with some of your post they are not much different to care for than a regular toad, but do you think the average person knows how to properly take care of a toad, when the toad gets sick or bacteria do you think one could just take it to a vet?
yes, SWIM believes if the toad gets sick, starts losing weight, or looks to have a bacterial infection, it should see a vet. infact, SWIM thinks you should have a knowledgable, recognized vet that treats herps before you even get the herps. no point in rushing them into a vet that specializes in dogs, and no point in making the animal suffer because you think you can treat the problem ... you aren't a vet.
How big is ones Rubbermaid container? Swib houses a pair in a 100 gallon tall terrium and swib thinks this is small because they love to move and hop.
SWIM isn't familiar with the dimensions of a 100 gallon tall, but if it's a 110XH (48"x18") or 120 (48"x24"), he feels that is enough room for two adult toads. why the high tank though? SWIM doesn't think they will utilize all that space. the rubbermaid container SWIM uses is 42"x18". biggest rubbermaid SWIM has ever seen, and uses it for lots of reptiles.
Swib agrees if one were to buy these toads it should be as a pet not a drug factory and the way some post here they seem more interested in a drug rather than a great pet. Swib also agrees they have great character for toads.
Regardless of how either SWIM or SWIY feel, other people are going to continue to purchase these toads as "drug factories." SWIM feels it is up to him, SWIY, and SWIEVERONE to keep everyone informed so these toads atleast have a chance at a somewhat happy life. Nothing would be worse than having one of these toads die because information wasn't right infront of SWIsomeoneelse, and they were too lazy to look it up.
Also one needs more vitamins than just calcium carbonate. Swib uses Rep-Cal multivitamins along with their calcium. Swib also buys special gut load for swibs insects and feeds them a large variety of fruits and vegetables. Swib breeds 5 different roaches, crickets, and wax worms. In a good week swibs 2 toads go through about 50-100 crickets, and 5-25 large roaches.
SWIM agrees with SWIYs supplement regime. The Rep-Cal blue container and pink container in combination will provide enough extras for your toads. The gutloading is probably overkill, but it shows SWIY cares for his animals well.
same thing goes for the variety of insects you feed. it's unneccessary, but a nice extra to show you care. SWIM doesnt feed nearly as much to his toads as you do, and they keep on weight. SWIY must have some chubbins.
SWIMs alvarus amplexed several times, laid some eggs in the mud in the water dish when first acquired. None since, but SWIM has not tried. SWIM would adopt the dry out, then flood with ice water stragegy. This works for many species dependent on runoff to trigger breeding. Given that these are Colorado river toads, deluge conditions would likely work the best.
SWIM has had them lay eggs also, but never taken the next step to care for them. SWIMs specialty isn't breeding amphibians. SWISnapper would probably know more about inducing breeding than SWIM.
SWIM does know for a fact that these are bred in captivity, as some of SWIMs wholesalers have had available for him all life stages of this toad (tadpole, toadlet?, and ages of toad), and has garuntee they were from a captive breeding. SWIM trusts his source for this almost as much as he trusts his source for good quality H.
They do burrow, but the key is to have a barely damp substrate. The coconut fiber is good because it does not seem to harbor moisture for too long.
Agreed.
Injecting frogs to breed is a cop-out. You can breed alvarus if you want to naturally. All amphibians have a trigger, and you just need to replicate it.
Agreed again. SWISnapper will figure it out for the world one day, and hopefully publish.:D
Swibs also has found swibs alavius in amplex several times each year. Swibs female seems to lay one clutch of eggs each year. But never fertile.
Has swis ever seen any publication on breeding the alvarius besides the graduate from havard who used a hormone?
Swib agrees with you snapper swib does spoil all of swibs pets. Why not if one is to keep such an animal? Swibs toads are of the correct weight but get plenty of exercise in the tank. Swib would feel bad if swib did not spoil all his pets and give them everything they need and than some. because thats how swib wants to live so why not give it to swibs pets Swib is trying to save species not torture them. Swib has hooked up a mist system to swibs Bicolor tank and the humidity can reach 100% if left on but swib has it on a timer. Does swis know what kind of leaf they might best lay an egg on?
Could swib PM you snapper to further talk about this since swib is now a bit off of the original topic?
Swib just hates when people ask question as "would it be morally ok to keep one as a pet hooked to a milking machine?" Of coarse it is not morally right to swib. Call peta and ask them the same question
Swib just hates when people ask question as "would it be morally ok to keep one as a pet hooked to a milking machine?" Of coarse it is not morally right to swib. Call peta and ask them the same question
SWIM agrees it isn't very nice to keep the toads just for milking, but in all fairness...call PETA and ask them anything and they'll b**ch.
sorry to double post but we must have posted at the same time. bearded has you supplier published anything can you pm swib with information on breading the alvarius? swibs are in such a tall terrium because swib started them out in a regular and the tended to hop, in a tall tank they can not reach the top. Swib realizes people will buy them for drug factories and it just pisses swib off swib has honestly never milk swibs toads swib thought about it when swib first got them turned one upside down the little dude started making that noise like another male was on his back and pissed all over the place so swib could not go through with it. On a few occasion swib has pick them up the move them while swib cleans the tank and they have gotten scared and some got in swibs hand were swib could use. but can not go though milking. Peta was a joke
Sorry, SWIM's supplier has no published work about breeding the B. alvarius. Even so, giving information like that may lead to SWIMs identity being revealed.
Peta was a joke
Was, or is? :D
Was, or is? :D
swib thinks both. The supplier should publish swib thinks they would be a first to publish the natural breeding of them.
swib thinks both. The supplier should publish swib thinks they would be a first to publish the natural breeding of them.
Maybe, but SWIM is pretty sure that the supplier wasn't that actual breeder, just a middleman for distribution.
Spare Chaynge
14-02-2007, 03:12
swim just orderd one swim dosent think he could hurt these guys can you just milk them gently swim was only planning on keeping klyde frog to himself not sharing (thats what swim named him) swim knows hes a toad.
Yes, you can hurt them if you try to milk the parotids and do not know how. In fact, you can hurt them if you do know how. Why not just get some of the stock chemical -there is no difference except with the stock chem, you can weigh the dose? Then keep your toad as a pet. They make great pets...
SWIM knows a SWIM who knows a SWIM who has found that they breed easily and in the same manner than other toads, only since they are desert animals, it makes the process even easier. Look up B. alvarus' natural history and figure it out..
KillroyMindless
26-02-2008, 00:58
You guys making SWIM have guilt trips SWIM smoked on last year venom and skin :( SWIM says srry if offending anyone. Yes you can get high but stick with alternative hallucanagens
swim knows of the toads swiy is lookin for. there is a site online that sells them... swim always wondered what the hell they were used for, but found out. swim was googling something else that day, and the link for those toads popped up.
just google, you'll find it.