The Infamous Tin Foil Debate

[Alfa]

I once heard that aluminium foil contains lead and smoking from it leads to intake of poisonous lead. Is this true?

[Insane Asian]

i dont think it has lead other wise it wouldnt be safe to wrap your food in. but ive also heard that smoking from foil is bad for your lungs because when it burns it has chemicals that fuck up your lungs.

[searcher]

Doesn't aluminum give you Alzheimers disease?

[Pinkavvy]

Though it is speculated that aluminun does cause alzheimers, is has not been proven.

However, they do know that high levels of aluminumdoes have bad neurotoxic effects on the brain that are similar to the symtoms of Alzhiemers. And the fumes from burning aluminum can cause brain damage. So, though they haven't proven yet that aluminum causes cancer, they do know that it is a neurotoxin and can cause brain damage the fumes of burning aluminun are inhaled.

[pancho]

i heard smokin aluminum puts metal bubbles in your lungs

[Psilocybe S.]

I must have a lot of metal bubbles then..sigh..

[Pinkavvy]

i heard smokin aluminum puts metal bubbles in your lungs


no, not at all. lol that would imply you're actually getting metel into your lungs. the danger comes from the fumes of the metel heating entering your blood stream through the lungs and causing brain damange after prolonged build up. also some speculation on the fumes causing cancer.

[Psilocybe S.]

I still bet all you guys that its less harmful that smoking cigarettes.

[searcher]

"They" say smoking 1 joint is equivalent to smoking 3 packs of cigarets.

[SurferNerd]

Ya, I think it does mess with your lungs tho, because I used to do it all the time, and my lungs have been hurting really bad from it. I went to a doctor to see why it was happening and he said I had chemicals in there from either aluminum or ink. I didnt want to go there with him about smoking from foil, but I guess its from that. Shortness of breath, easy wearing out, and pain when u sneeze, lol. But newayz, I aint doin it anymore, and I dont recommend it to neone. Vic

[manda]

Your doctor didn't mention Alzeheimer's, did he? (I've heard that sh&t before too)

[GLOBE]

Hey i belive the alzeheimers thing i used to smoke on a lot on foil it fucked my memory up alot could that be from the foil it also fucked my lungs up extremly bad it sucks...

[daeron]

here is some info:

Studies began to emerge about 20 years ago suggesting that aluminium might have a possible connection with developing Alzheimer's disease when researchers found what they considered to be significant amounts of aluminium in the brain tissue of Alzheimer's patients. Although automobile manufacturing industry also have concerns about long-term exposure to aluminium (contained in metal working fluids) in the workplace and the development of degenerative muscular conditions and cancer (Brown 1998; Bardin et al. 2000).

Scientists know that aluminium is a significant neurotoxin and that it shares many common mechanisms with mercury as a neutotoxin. For example:
They are both toxic to neuronal neurotubules
Interfere with antioxidant enzymes
Poison DNA repair enzymes
Interfere with mitochondrial energy production
Block the glutamate reuptake proteins (GLT-1 and GLAST)
Bind to DNA
Interfere with neuronal membrane function.

The last three decades have seen a steady increase of aluminium in our environment and diet. Many junk and fake foods contain additives; for example raising agents in breads, muffins and donuts.

Aluminium is harmful to all life forms. It damages all types of tissue. "Aluminium is a protoplasmic poison and a pernicious and persistent neurotoxin". No living systems use aluminium as part of a biochemical process. It has a tendency to accumulate in the brain and bones. It is considerably less toxic than mercury, arsenic, lead or cadmium, but it appears to be more persistent than most of them.

The principal symptom of Aluminium poisoning is the loss of intellectual function; forgetfulness, inability to concentrate, and in extreme cases, full blown dementia. It is also known to cause bone softening and bone mass loss, kidney and other soft tissue damage, in large doses it can cause cardiac arrest.

Sources and their effects are listed below.

sources:
Aerosol deodorants, alum, aluminium cooking foil, animal feed, antacids, aspirin, auto exhaust, baking powder, beer, bleached flour, cans & tins, ceramics, cheese, cigarette filters, colour additives, construction materials, cookware, cosmetics, dental amalgams, deodorants, drinking water, drying agents, dust, insulated wiring, medicinal compounds, milk products, nasal spray, pesticides, pollution, salt, municipal water, tobacco smoke, toothpaste, treated water, vanilla powder.

effects:
Alzheimer's, anaemia, appetite loss, behavioural problems, dental cavities, colds, colitis, confusion, constipation, dementia, dry mouth, dry skin, energy loss, excessive perspiration, flatulence, headaches, heartburn, hyperactivity, inhibition of enzyme systems, kidney dysfunction, memory loss, neuromuscular disorders, numbness, osteoporosis, paralysis, Parkinson's disease, peptic ulcer, psychosis, reduced intestinal activity, senility, skin problems, spleen pain, stomach pain, weak and aching muscles.

Now for my 2 cents:
If the Al foil is really cheap(i mean its quality is crap-you can determine this in a following manner:if you can scrape the fine Al particles of the foil than its crap) than by smoking shit in it you inhale submicron sized Al particles that go directly to the alveolas in your lungs,cause internal bleeding,breathing probleams and finally they enter the bloodstream and start fucking up you real bad,and really serious.
Use glass pipes,unless you like memory deficiency and a blood drenched cough.

[GLOBE]

yea i didnt have a pipe handy it was when i first started somkin not no mor ethough

[dags]

if your smoking weed out of it, just use an apple. dont do that shit if you have to. better yet, buy a fucking pipe.

[P!MPJU!C3]

Yes it is really bad 4 u. Metal in ur living invorement is unhealthy. Places close to big factories are dangerous partially due 2 2 much metal in the air.

Smoking off aluminium will kill u, but only if dope doesnt kill u 1st. But then again "Weve been dieng since we were born."

P!MPJU!C3

[Muirner]

SWIM here personally smokes outa foil only when he is doing a Gravity bong and he uses it for the top. SWIMS parents dont buy the cheap aluminum foil and it has never flaked never chipped or anything like that. True it might be bad but for the whole 2 hits that SWIM does off of a gravity bong it couldnt be that bad.


Smoking bud outa an apple, yea i've heard of this before many a time, also a potato and such... SWIM dosent enjoy this from his friends he has heard that the bud and such tastes like starch (when using a potato) and wierd with apples. Most people around here will make an apple/potato piece and use tinfoil to keep the bud off the "flesh" of the fuit/veggie.


Muirner

[Alfa]

Itis not about flaking or chipping. You still get it in.

[Muirner]

</O:P>
<O:P>If the Al foil is really cheap(i mean its quality is crap-you can determine this in a following manner:if you can scrape the fine Al particles of the foil than its crap)





i just said that it wasnt like he describes it. but Alfa do u really think that doing 2 GB's that i'm inhaling that much Al?


Muirner

[Alfa]

I would not use alu foil to smoke no matter what.

[xawego]

You need to burn the alu foil with fire before you use it for smoking coke, so most toxic will burn away.
Use the dulness site for the coke, and the glossy site of the foil at the bottom which you can burn if ya smoke it.

[Muirner]

so the reccomendation is not to use aluminum foil at all period the end? xawego is providing a technique, but it dosent sound like he is pulling anything through the foil... what if i burn the shit outa it before i make the piece would it work then? or still major no go?


Muirner

[daeron]

most ofthe toxic will burn away?Yeah rightto your lungs.Dont you people get it,Al(and more importantly Al2O3) particles cant be seen or smelled or tasted.Can you see something that is less than 1/1000000m in diameter?Every time you take a hit,be it from a cheapor a filthy expencive foil you inhale a shitload of Al particles.


but hey I must be talking gibberish...so dont listen to me,have yourfun!Alzheimers galore!


Hey or better yet,why dont ya take a few good tokes from a blast furnace?

[GLOBE]

Ok simply for all you people jus save a lil bit of money and buy yourself a lil pipe of some sort its as easy as that ok good......http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif

[thydarkprevails]

well, what if you are freebasing 5 MeO dmt and you do not want to make a lightbulb..foil and a slider work nicely, but i suppose there is the danger of the foil there...for SWIMS casual, maybe once a month use of 5 meo, i don't think it's a big deal though..

[Muirner]

well lets clarify, SWIM here dosent take hits from foil directly, when foil is used with him it is used in a gravity bong, so if there is any Al particles then they are hitting the water... sort of a filter, true maybe he gets some but it isnt like he's taking direct hits outa a Al pipe...


thydarkprevails- i think if your freebasing your not inhalingal i dont think you are inhaling Al particlesbecause nothing is really passing through the Al.


Muirner

[grecian]

i always thought if u burn the chemicals of the aluminium then it is safe...

[searcher]

My "ghetto pipe" is encrusted with resin, I'm not burning the aluminum http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

[psyki]

How about "tin" foil? Or does that even exist anymore??

[Guest]

my brain if fucked up from smoking out of foil. believe me .... it not worth it. i've been smoking since i was 13, and dat was in 1976. i'm an old hippie with alot of knowledge on shiva, ganja, dro, kb, hash, hashish, ect


.http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif

[radiometer]

Here's a cut'n'paste of a post I made on another board about this:

BTW, I knew smoking out of aluminum foil wasnt good for you, but
is it really that bad? The first 3 or 4 months I smoked weed I smoked
mostly out of homemade bongs made with aluminum foil bowls, and
when we smoked out of our glass pipe we used aluminum foil bowls for it
too, because it just had a hole, not its own bowl. I never do this any
more, but could that have any sort of lasting effects? I've been seeing lots of people refute the danger of using tinfoil, and
found this tidbit, which you can judge for yourselves:

While working on my heroin books, I researched the possible ill
effects of smoking anything off of aluminum foil. This included extensive
conversations with people at Reynolds Consumer Products--the makers
of Reynolds Wrap®. Although the company does not recommend smoking
heroin off their product (nor do they like the idea of their product being
associated with heroin at all), there are no known problems stemming
from the foil.

Aluminum is Stable

Aluminum neither melts nor vaporizes at the temperatures that it would
be exposed to in the course of smoking heroin. It is, however, possible
for acids to eat holes in it. This will be familiar to people who have stored
acidic food--like tomato sauce--in aluminum foil. Heroin is an acid; this
is why it burns when injected into a muscle. But there are two reasons
why this would be unlikely to cause a problem to a heroin inhaler.

1&nbsp ;Heroin is not a very strong acid. What it is cut with, may be, of
course. Black tar heroin is often cut with coffee which is extremely acidic.
With the high-purity of the street-level heroin sold these days, this isnot
such a big concern.
2&nbsp ;The products of th chemical reaction of aluminum with the
most common chemicals found in street heroin do not vaporize at these
temperatures.<a href="http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/health/

http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/ (http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/health/leukoencephalopathy.shtml) Edited by: radiometer

[twintornado]

tin foil would be even worse. use a copper lid or similar for smack

[Muirner]

Copper? isnt that an even bigger no no then Alu. Foil? I heard something a long time ago about using a copper pipe and how it was wicked bad for you. This has kept me out of the home depot section when i need a pipe http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif...


As for Alu. Foil causing everyone on here such problems, i must say that as often as i have smoked from it, it used to be an every day thing smoking a few gb's in each sitting. I dont feel any real difference. Remember that when your smoking weed the smoke is unfiltered and pretty thick. Also keep in mind that your holding the smoke in your lungs, thus cutting the pores off from breathing because your lungs are filled with smoke. The translation i heard was 1 joint = 3ciggs, but it always keeps changing.

Whom ever said for me to go get a pipe and stop smoking alu. foil, i'd like it to be known that i did have a nice very nice bubbler, and that ended up being found when i went to jail by my mom. It has sense been thrown away. Now her policy is "I find anything, you move out" so is it worth it tome to go spend what ever onglass, when ican hit a single GB and be straight? nope it's not, at most i just need a glass slide so i can stop hitting Alu. Foil, but still some people cant go off and have bowls everywhere, and sometimes methods of smoking dont include a bowl such as Gravity Bongs (GB's)


Muirner

[sg43]

For that matter most deordorants contain aluminium as a active ingredient to stop presperation, which can lead to Alzeheimers.

[Guest]

I was wonderinghow smoking the foil affects your lungs? Howdoes it effect the sinuses?


Thanks

[pokeymcsmot420]

muirner, i reccomend buying a metal bowl piece (just the bowl part) and burning it into a pop cap.


altho you would still be running the risk of it being discovered, but a pop cap is very small and easily concealable. idk might not be worth risking, but alluminum foil is not only dangerous but a major pain in the ass to deal with.


on the other hand when swim first started smoking he was dumb and made a new tin foil pipe about every night for about 6 months. (no exageration) andhe has not felt any negative effects, yet.


not like that means anything at all, but i think you will be ok with a couple gb's a day.


and as far as the one joint = blank #ciggarettes goes, its all bullshit.


http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml#3- (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml#3-17) 17


its # 17 on the list of faq thingy under part 3

[Nicaine]

Probably smoking very occasionally from aluminum foil isn't harmful. Foil tends not to vaporize or burn easily at the temperature of a butane lighter, & you probably don't get very much aluminum in your body from it. Just an educated guess tho.

As far as containing lead... no. At least not in the USA.Edited by: Nicaine

[eesakiwi]

Hmm, first post.



SwIm welds sometimes. SwIms welded lots of Aluminium.

While welding there is a cloud of Aluminium oxide haze above the welder.

SwIms nose hairs go white with the powder.

After a week or so the smell of it starts to come out in yah sweat.

Its a dry choking smell. Just like a Dry Powder Fire extingusher.

SwIms had a head scan since. Notta problem!

So the answers 'No'. 'No' damage at all.



Some Ali foil has a plastic film on one side. Non stick swImguesses.

Tear it from the side edge slowly and the foil may tear and the film will lift off the foil.

[daeron]

^thats like a smoker who claims that cigs dont cause cancer cos he he hasnt aquired cancer from his yrs of smoking.sorry but thats just wrong


and it will accumulate in the body through time...Edited by: daeron

[Guest]

I have a question.


If you are smoking out of a vaporizer and the heaing element is aluminum. Are you taking all of the same risks? Or, is it ok because the vaporizer isn't as hot as a lighter?

[als5555]

when aluminum burns it gives off aluminmu oxide and aluminum carbide. niether are great for you. aluminum in foil form gives off less than most other forms of aluminum though. the gasses can cause temporary coughing and stinging, and if breathed daily can cause some serious problems. but noone breathes those amounts. a glass pipe is better, and you can go get one for pretty cheap, but when in need aluminum foil is there.

[whatsbugginu]

I find it amazing to say the least everytime I hear misleading and otherwise bogus " I heard" information, especially concerning drugs. If jeez I lost it again. Dam brain cell got stuck again and those . Oh yeah let me find whoever it was that was talking. I remember, it was me I'm kidding. If smoking onaluminum foil causes forget me please disease or bubbles in the lungs it's probably from all those years our dads bbq'd every other week. Remember all those pieces of foil stuck to your food. How many hours do you guestimate your food cooked, smoked, burned and lay all over that foil? I can't say that the info is wrong, but it can'tall be right. One daymilk does a body good, the next dayit causes cancer and the day after that everybody issaying, "GOT MILK". PerhapsMILK causes forget me please disease? I say it like that because being the dope head that I have been over the last 10+ years caused me to not be able to spell the disease. I have yet to hear 2 or more people pronounce it right either, everybody calls it alltimers disease. what gives huh? lol Don't mean to criticize anyone's post, I promise.

[MrJim]

This has come up in every forum where smoking a drug is possible - The question invariably leads to "Can it be smoked off of foil?" which then drifts to "Isn't foil bad for you?" I have spent the past couple of days researching this in hopes of coming up with a definitive answer.

So first lets list some basic facts about Aluminium:

Meltingpoint 660.4 C (when Al becomes a liquid)
Boiling Point 2467 C (when Al becomes a vapour)
Bic lighters have been measured at above 700C at their hottest point.

So how is it made? Is it possible to have contaminants from the manufacture process?
First the Aluminium is cast into ingots from Bauxite. It is melted and electrolysis is used to get pure Aluminium in 10 to 25 ton slabs. After that the process is relatively straightforward. Aluminium is heated and pushed through rollers a few times to get the desired thickness, Then cut to width and rolled up. There are some processes in which coolant is used on the Aluminium in order to quickly cool it down between stages. This coolant is the only time foreign material may be in contact with the Aluminium and is actually not used often – the cost of coolant is prohibitive to foil production. Most do not use a coolant.

For exact details of foil production you can type in this address www.alufoil.org/eng/alufoil_21.html (http://www.alufoil.org/eng/alufoil_21.html)

Essentially Aluminium foil is almost pure Al (98.5%)– no contaminants or anything that would taint your food. In fact at the end of the process the foil is considered completely sterile. (Just like you after you smoke off of Al foil! Just kidding about that, BTW)

What about Alzheimer’s disease?
This next segment comes from aluminum.org’s web page

Alzheimer’s Disease is a chronic condition that is characterized by progressive loss of memory and other brain functions of daily living. It is the most common type of dementia and most cases occur after the age of 65. The specific diagnosis of Alzheimer’s Disease (A.D.) can be difficult. A certain diagnosis can only be confirmed by brain biopsy and the finding of both the accumulation of unusual protein substances associated with damage to nerve cells called Neurofibrillary Tangles (NFT) and scars called Senile Plaques (S.P.).

More than half of all cases of dementia are considered to be A.D., and about 5% of the population at the age of 70-80 years is affected by A.D. AD appears to be a multi-factorial disease that involves genetic and environmental factors. Despite over twenty years of extensive research, no clear cause has yet been found. Current emphasis is on a genetic linkage, which was formerly considered important only for Alzheimer’s disease of early onset. Recent research has also linked several genetic factors to late onset Alzheimer’s disease.

Environmental risk factors may also contribute to the development of A.D., but much less is known about these.
The impairments which occurred particularly in the past and were attributed to aluminum accumulation in the body during kidney dialysis using tap water for the dialysis fluid in patients with severe kidney dysfunction, is different from those seen with Alzheimer’s Disease. Behavioural features are different and the diagnostic structural brain changes of Alzheimer’s Disease are not present. This “dialysis dementia” is now rare and can be treated and usually reversed, in contrast to A.D.

January 2001
Avenue de Broqueville, 12 • B-1150 Brussels, Belgium • Phone +32-2-775 63 17 • Fax +32-2-779 05 31
EUROPE N LUMINIUM SSOCI A A ASSOCIA TION
The possibility of a link between aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease surfaced in 1965, when injecting aluminum salts directly into the brain of rabbits produced some histopathological changes. These were later shown to be different from the changes found in Alzheimer’s Disease.
Subsequent research has produced conflicting results. A research group in Newcastle found aluminum in the core of the senile plaques associated with A.D. Researchers at the Institute of Basic Research and Developmental Disabilities found varying levels of aluminum and silicon co-localised in about half the tangles and plaques studied in the brains of Alzheimer patients. The variability of detection and the low levels of aluminum present indicated to them that aluminum is not necessary
for the formation of the structural abnormalities within the brains of Alzheimer patients. A group at Oxford University using advanced analytical techniques on unstained samples did not find aluminum in the core of the senile plaques.
A recent Norwegian study, set up to eliminate several of the earlier difficulties, found no difference in the aluminum content in selectively affected areas of the brain between Alzheimer patients and a control group.

The latest comprehensive report was produced in 1997 by a Task Group of the International Programme on Chemical Safety, under the auspices of the World Health Organisation and the United Nations Environment Programme. This report concludes that “There is no evidence to support a primary causative role of aluminum in Alzheimer's disease and aluminum does not induce Alzheimer's disease pathology in vivo in any species, including humans. The hypothesis that exposure of the elderly population in some regions to higher levels of aluminum in drinking water may exacerbate or accelerate Alzheimer's disease is not supported by available data".

During the 7th International Conference on Alzheimer and related disorders in July 2000, which was attended by more than one thousand specialists, aluminum was not considered to be one of the factors involved in A.D. The aluminum industry has always taken a responsible attitude to health concerns about aluminum. It has provided considerable resources to key
centres with eminent researchers in this field to help improve knowledge of the causes of this disease.
While leading scientists, medical authorities and Alzheimer researchers continue to discount the involvement of aluminum, the industry believes that research into the possible causes of Alzheimer’s Disease should continue until the
cause(s) and cure are found. The industry will continue to support the evaluation of effects of aluminum and other metal ions on human health.

This is not to mean that Aluminum is completely safe. Aluminum is used in city drinking water and in fact Aluminum salts can be beneficial for your health in small quantities, but highly concentrated doses can be quite devastating, especially if the Aluminum is powdered and inhaled.
This comes from Lentech’s website:

Aluminium is one of the most widely used metals and also one of the most frequently found compounds in the earth's crust. Due to these facts, aluminium is commonly known as an innocent compound. But still, when one is exposed to high concentrations, it can cause health problems. The water-soluble form of aluminium causes the harmful effects, these particles are called ions. They are usually found in a solution of aluminium in combination with other ions, for instance as aluminium chlorine.

The uptake of aluminium can take place through food, through breathing and by skin contact. Long lasting uptakes of significant concentrations of aluminium can lead to serious health effects, such as:

- Damage to the central nervous system
- Dementia
- Loss of memory
- Listlessness
- Severe trembling

Aluminium is a risk in certain working environments, such as mines, where it can be found in water. People that work in factories where aluminium is applied during production processes may endure lung problems when they breathe in aluminium dust. Aluminium can cause problems for kidney patients when it enters the body during kidney dialyses.
Inhalation of finely divided aluminium and aluminium oxide powder has been reported as a cause of pulmonary fibrosis and lung damage. This effect, know as Shaver’s Disease, is complicated by the presence in the inhaled air of silica and oxides of iron. May also be implicated in Alzheimer’s disease.

So Aluminium is not innocuous, but neither is it a belligerent force. Unless you are taking shavings from Aluminium and constantly inhaling them the risk of any bad side effects from Aluminium is actually quite remote. Foil has no shavings on it and won’t vaporize until an extremely high temperature that a lighter simply couldn’t reach.

[MrJim]

This just in from Unnamed Al Foil Manufacturer:


SWIMwrote:
Hello,
My friend and I have an on going debate about aluminum foil I was hoping you could clear up. He thinks that when you wrap onions in Aluminum foil and put them on a BBQ that the heat releases residual "impurities" from the manufacturing process. I believed that the only thing used in the production of Aluminum foil is Aluminum and heat, therefore unless you can get the BBQ up to about 2800C nothing can be released from the foil. So is it possible to have any sort of residuals left from the manufacture of Foil? Nothing can be released off the foil from heat, right?


They responded:


Thank you for your inquiry regarding Aluminum Foil.

Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil is 98.5% aluminum. The balance is primarily iron and silicon. These are added to give the strength and puncture resistance obtained only in the alloy used in Reynolds household foil. Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil contains no
recycled material.

Aluminum foil, and virtually any other aluminum product is not 100% aluminum. The same could be said for most all metal products as it is virtually impossible to get 100% purity, and in most cases, as with aluminum, other components are added in small quantities to adjust the properties for optimal performance. Additionally, for aluminum foil, there is typically trace quantities of rolling lubricant left on the surface of the foil. In all cases these components are in full compliance with FDA regulations for direct food contact and are safe.





So.... There is a residue left over in trace amounts. I am asking them what it is.... Will update when I know more.


Swim wrote:


Thank you for your timely response.

What is the rolling lubricant that is used? What happens to this when it
is heated?
Thanks again



Theywrote:


In response to your follow-up inquiry, Reynolds uses a high grade proprietary oil as a lubricant in rolling aluminum foil. Unfortunately, I am unable to further help you.





So.... I have been looking up high grade proprietary oils and they seem to be combinations of mineral oils, all consumable, to help keep the viscosity of the rollers down.Edited by: MrJim

[Chaote]

This has made me think of what happened to the actor whos name escapes me was intended to play the tin man in the wizard of oz, how he breathed in aluminum dust and nearly died, though this was a high concentration it is something i feel people should be aware of

[MrJim]

For sure Chaote,


I just keep seeing this debate going on so I thought it's own thread would be a good place for any information on this subject. It seems to be important across a vast array of drugs.

[INodHardOhYeah]

//From Scientific American:

Is there any proof that Alzheimer's disease is related to exposure to aluminum--for instance, by using aluminum frying pans?

Two more researchers have responded to this question. Leonard Berg is a professor of neurology at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis; until recently, he directed the Alzheimer's Disease Research Center there. He replies:

"There is no proof, and the current consensus is that aluminum does not play a major role in the development of Alzheimer's disease. But because the causes of the disorder are not understood at this time, one cannot rule out the possibility that aluminum could play a minor role. In our Center, we do not recommend that people avoid aluminum cooking pans or aluminum-containing antiperspirants or antacids because there is little evidence that such lifestyle changes are helpful. Moreover, it is impossible to avoid ingesting a certain amount of aluminum, which is found naturally in food and water."

Zaven S. Khachaturian is the director of the Ronald and Nancy Reagan Research Institute. He has written a review article on the disease in July/August issue of The Sciences. He adds:

"In the mind of many scientists, if aluminum plays a role it is most probably a secondary one. The reasoning for this position is based on the fact that aluminum is one of the most abundant and pervasive elements. It is found everywhere--it is in the water we drink, it is in the dust we breathe, it is in many of he substances we use every day such as coke in glass bottles, food preservatives, many cosmetics and food dyes. Even if we stop using pots and pans or underarm deodorants, it will be virtually impossible to avoid aluminum. Given this type of exposure of the general population, if aluminum is playing a major role then one would expect the numbers of people affected by Alzheimer's to be much higher than they are found in epidemiological studies."

http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=0000FCD2-AA88-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7&ref=sciam

//But there is conflicting evidence from studies done on the concentration of aluminum in drinking water.

SAN DIEGO (Reuters Health) - Adding support to a controversial theory linking aluminum with Alzheimer's disease, new research indicates the disease is more common in regions of northwest Italy where levels of aluminum in drinking water are highest. . . . When the researchers tested water in regions of northwest Italy in 1998, they found that total aluminum levels -- including monomeric and other types of aluminum -- ranged from 5 to 1,220 micrograms per liter, while monomeric aluminum levels alone ranged from 5 to 300 micrograms per liter.

http://www.rense.com/general37/SSTER.HTM

//The French also did a study, reported in the American Journal of Epidemiology

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/16/aluminum_water_alzheimers.htm

This study was done on a much larger scale and "concluded that between 15,180 and 26,910 of the estimated 66,000 to 117,000 cases of Alzheimer's Disease might have been prevented if the aluminum concentration in the municipal water supply had been kept below 100 micrograms per liter."

http://student.biology.arizona.edu/ad/water.html


//Positions of major Alzheimer's Groups
Alzheimer's Society: http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/pdf/i_aluminium.pdf
National Institute of Aging: http://www.alzheimers.org/unravel.txt
Alzheimer's Association: http://www.alz.org/media/positions/alum.htm


//From the "Heroin Helper" about the effects of smoking off aluminum foil:
" While working on my heroin books, I researched the possible ill effects of smoking anything off of aluminum foil. This included extensive conversations with people at Reynolds Consumer Products--the makers of Reynolds Wrap®. Although the company does not recommend smoking heroin off their product (nor do they like the idea of their product being associated with heroin at all), there are no known problems stemming from the foil."
http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/health/leukoencephalopathy.shtml

//OK that about covers it, by the way the slashes denote comments by SWIM, everything else is copied from somewhere.

[gitst0opid]

Props for the links INodHardOhYeah!
Alfa: I guess I shouldn't have stated my opinion on the subject as a fact.
But though it hasn't been actually proven, the blood scans of Alzeheimer patients does show increased aluminium levels.
Anyways, I came to my opinion on the subject 5 years ago after reading a thread on another forum.

(No links to other boards please: Thankyou)

[jesusfreak666er]

swim doesnt know about alzeheimers, but swim know that alum can produce fumes (black smoke) and swim knows that shouldnt be in his lungs, swim trys to avoid foil when he can cuz even if it isnt an alzeheimer cause it cant be good for ya

[Nagognog2]

The linkage between aluminum and Alzeheimers, which first saw light in the late 1980's, has been largely discounted. But that's not to say it doesn't exist. One conspiracy theory holds that ALCOA (Aluminum Corporation of America) paid to have it squelched. We may never know.

But if aluminum scares you, then for heck's sake don't go spraying your armpits with aluminum chlorhydrate - bearing products to make you smell fresh as a daisy. That stuff will soak into your skin. It's what it's designed to do - clog your pores with aluminum.

[jesusfreak666er]

were getting a little off topic but w/e, do most deodorants have aluminum?

[Agent Subby]

Does everybody that has a toot bother burning the aluminium off the foil before you start tooting?
I've heard it can cause Alzeimers if you don't.:smoking:

[adzket]

no they dont i no some swims' that do but many more that don't there is a suposid risk of alzeimers like simptoms due to aluminum poising rather than alzeimers it's self.

[Fantasian]

Better to be safe than sorry :D The one time SWIF did this he burned it off.

[tshady]

most people i no do burn it,just watch and smell the smoke that comes of and it will give you a sore head to..

[INodHardOhYeah]

This is from one of my posts in the Propylhexadrine Basics thread (various drugs)

//From the "Heroin Helper" about the effects of smoking off aluminum foil:
" While working on my heroin books, I researched the possible ill effects of smoking anything off of aluminum foil. This included extensive conversations with people at Reynolds Consumer Products--the makers of Reynolds Wrap®. Although the company does not recommend smoking heroin off their product (nor do they like the idea of their product being associated with heroin at all), there are no known problems stemming from the foil."
http://www.heroinhelper.com/ (http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/health/leukoencephalopathy.shtml)

[Wflash]

SWIM has expressed his grateful thanks to me for a lot of the excellent advice I've been picking up for him on here, so here goes with another query to which he would like to apply the community's expert knowledge and lengthy experience -

In SWIM's city, every time anyone (and by this he means everyone) prepares to smoke some kit, he or she first of all spends a lengthy period of time holding a lighter flame to the bit of tinfoil that the smack's gonna go on, "to burn off the poisonous sh*t".

Now SWIM has to say that he's just a little sceptical abouth this.

No obvious vapour or similar appears to be coming off the foil while it is heated, and in any case - surely it wouldn't be sold for wrapping meat in to roast in ovens, and all it's other "legitimate" cooking uses, without a public health warning on it if there was some serious issue here. Plus SWIM has never encountered anyone known to have poisoned themselves with tinfoil. However SWIM has heard that some folk link too much legitimate tinfoil usage with Alzheimer's. But are there any known facts here, or have any scientific studies been done?

SWIM knows that urban myths can spread to almost saturation point among drug users.

For an example he was long expecting his teeth to fall out at any moment because "methadone rots your teeth", 'til he picked up an excellent "Methadone - The Facts" type leaflet in a health centre somewhere that informed him that, yes - Kryptonite can rot your teeth because it's usually got sugar in it to make it taste nicer. However so does Coca Cola or Irn Bru, and they rot your teeth far faster.

And another not directly relevant but quite interesting one - people won't use the central magnetically(?) readable bits of Glasgow tube tickets for roaches in spliffs "because there's more toxins in it than the plain cardboard bit", but are quite happy to pour in and smoke all of the toxic chemicals found in tobacco.

So what's the score with burning his tinfoil before putting his smack on it? Is this necessary to ensure a long and happy life? Or a oddball myth that just sounds convincing? :confused:

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM thinks that the aluminum foil danger was disproved as a myth. Search around the forum a little bit, SWIM remembers a discussion about this. He can't find his source for the disproof at the moment but he recalls finding out that there was no conclusive evidence that smoking off of aluminum foil will cause Alzheimers or anything like that.

[Wflash]

Thanks. I'll have a look about the forum. Kinda thought that might be the case.

[Alfa]

Threads merged. Also check Smoking cannabis with Aluminum Foil (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3181&highlight=foil)

[Alfa]

About Alzheimers and alufoil: http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/Risk_factors/info_aluminium.htm
Bottom line: There is circumstantial evidence linking this metal with Alzheimer's disease but no causal relationship has yet been proved. As evidence for other causes continues to grow, a possible link with aluminium seems increasingly unlikely.

[Ilsa]

i know this thread is way old, but i think it warrants a bump (thanks to lostgurl for posting it in best threads... (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51162)). i'd venture a guess that burning and inhaling the fumes from tin or aluminum foil is gonna be rough on your lungs--bad idea in general. if one must, for whatever reason, use foil, then aluminum is probably the safer of the two. it's ubiquitous, being the most abundant element (that's been stated, i think, sorry for the redundancy), our bodies are probably better adapted to metabolizing Al than they are to metabolizing tin, which is far less abundant. that's just pure conjecture on my part though. Chemistry of the Environment (http://books.google.com/books?id=AeVUKiDbzuYC&pg=RA1-PA400&lpg=RA1-PA400&dq=aluminum+tin+toxicity&source=web&ots=kLwkph1TdI&sig=ftMh7xGr13E3enl-H6YFTTJiV6Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PRA1-PA400,M1) gives a thorough but succinct description of the environmental sources of these elements and the mechanisms by which they cause toxicity in the body. in theory, aluminum forms a inert layer of oxides immediately upon exposure to air and this idea forms the basis for the claim that Al is a non-toxic household item that is safe for cooking, etc. however, the authors go on to explain that under different chemical conditions (increased acidity), Al can indeed become soluble. tin seems to be less reactive, but again its solubility changes with the chemical conditions, and it's been shown to be toxic to marine organisms. all in all, i'd avoid it.

[Mr. Bob]

Forget tinfoil all together, it's a waste of time. Better to use a screen from a sink.

Or buy some stainless steel mesh for washing cast iron. Don't be an idiot and get sos pads like a few people have done, only plain stainless steel (NO CHEMICALS) will do. Cut a bit of the stainless steel mesh from the bundle, hold it over a flame for a few minutes till it turns red, cool it off in cold water, dry the fucker and put it in your pipe. I have one of those old metal screw-together pipes and it's worked just fine for a while now, I put it right down in the elbow below the bowl piece. It takes much longer to clog this type of screen than the sink screens and works just as well when packed in right. Plus it lasts a very long time and is incredibly cheap to replace. Spend a few bucks and have a fresh screen source for a few years... unless your Tommy Chong and smoke ten pounds of shit a day.

:thumbsup:

Note:

NEVER use copper to smoke anyhting. Although it takes a lot of heat to kill you - or just seriously fuck you up in a very bad way, it has the potential. Don't risk it.

[Desertfox]

SWIM thought you had to swallow a rather large amount of aluminum and have it metabolize from the stomach to cause alzheimer's, but this is just one theory among many. this seems alot more likely than from the inhalation of a few aluminum ions that were able to escape from the group and into your lungs from the heat of a lighter. Also SWIM thinks that the aluminum collects over a lifetime, this is why alzheimer's doesn't appear until your older, maybe smoking with it your whole life could have some effect but its most likely only has effect to people in industrial factory jobs that work around large amounts of aluminum.

[Potter]

Mr. Bob, nobody is going to have to disagree with using steel mesh if it's the same stuff as steel wool (brillo pad with out the soap). Nobody has seen that stuff burning and that is NOT anything you want to have near your face. True it takes a bit to get started, a butane flame is helpful, but once it goes, it shoots hot sparks quite a distance, sparks that leave a pretty nasty burn. Look up "burning steel wool" on YouTube to get an idea of what nobody is talking about. Once the stuff starts burning you can't really put it out, try and smother it with a blanket and it'll burn right through.

If what you are talking about is considerable thicker gauge, this may not be an issue, but steel wool in a pipe is going to get someone hurt.

[Lamb]

Isn't aluminium safe due to the fact that the flame isn't hot enough to melt the foil? How can any aluminium be breathed in if the foil is intact and undamaged from the flame?

[Taken]

Isn't aluminium safe due to the fact that the flame isn't hot enough to melt the foil? How can any aluminium be breathed in if the foil is intact and undamaged from the flame?

Thats what Swim thought. With it makes since that you breath in some chemicals from heating it up and breathing though but Swim that that the flame is it hot enough to activate the chemicals or whatever.

What if Swim made a foil bowl for his bong and uses that same bowl for several months before changing it? Would that make it better than say making a new bowl every day? A screen from the sink sounds like a good idea. Maybe putting it in a wench socket.